Re: Ningishzidda

[MythMath]

Marilyn Monroe
{Norma Jeane Mortenson}

promotional still from 1953
Born: June 1, 1926 Died: August 5, 1962

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Thank you very much for this, MythMath.

[deviadah]

On the flint-head thing, an interesting note that Dev may remember from the Hrungmismal is how Thor received a piece of flint in his brow (third eye?) after smiting the giant Hrungnir. Further related is Thor and Jormundgandr's mutual annihilation, tying back to the serpent theme, if not the Orouboros. This is a bit of a divergence, and I apologize for such, but it seems to corroborate the notions of global alchemy as stated earlier.

Actually I didn't know about this. I am not at all well versed in Norse Mythology... I'm more looking at the horizon than what's in my backyard... perhaps this is a mistake on my part. I have, though, some notes here and there that I need to get into this Norse stuff since there are several things that correspond to other myths and legends.

Nidhogg and Ng are on opposite sides of the mirror!

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Ah. Well, the Hrungnismal is probably one of my favorites, as it has Thor pitted against a giant most obviously his dark reflection, and has a very little known section discussing flint, which has a certain significance as you read the myth. You might also find it as the Lay of Hrungnir. Either way, the similarities in Norse myths to so many early cultures does indeed promote, at least in my mind, how much our species' spiritual history is but a series of criss-crossing lines all leading to the same source, like a knot of serpents.

[antonchanning]

Good to see Ningizzida being discussed here. I had in fact just being writing about Ningizzida for my new book, although I may have a few more avenues of research to follow up and expand my writing on him, as my main source currently was wikipedia (holds head in shame). Still, much of what I wrote holds up. I may as well quote it. Please bare in mind this is a first draft that hasn't even been proof read, so be kind. This is quite short as I only really intended it as an opening paragraph to the section on the Caduceus:

Images of a staff or wand with one or two serpents coiled about them seem to date from thousands of years ago. The earliest example currently known to us dates from between 2200 and 2025 BCE in Mesopotamia, a representation of the deity Ningizzida. It depicts two horned dragon like snakes, probably 'bashmu' dragons, the animal sacred to Ningizzida. Serpents coil about one another during copulation, and so it seems reasonable to assume that this image of Ningizzida contains both a male and a female dragon, as if to reinforce the hermaphrodite nature of the symbolism. What is more Ningizzida is described as having a wife (Ninazimua or Dazimua), and being the son of Ninazu, yet the prefix 'Nin' refers to a female entity in Sumerian. They are sometimes also depicted as a serpent with a human head. Their name means 'Lord of the Good Tree', and they were considered a deity of medicine, appeared as one of two guardians at the gates of Anu's celestial palace in Sumerian myth and was also a messenger to the goddess Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven and Earth. Ningizzida was associated with constellation of Hydra.

Now, I obviously interpret the deity as Hermaphrodite in my initial research, although from reading here I suspect the deity is almost certainly more likely male, or was masculinised at a certain point in Sumerian history whilst retaining the female appellation. Also, just to think about the origins of the word 'woman' derived from 'wyf-man', whereas the male was refered to as 'waep-man' or 'wer-man'. I'm not sure but the term for male simply meant something like 'human with weapon', whilst 'wyf-man' meant 'human with womb'. In other words terms for gender were more about what you did than what you were physically (although there may have been a strong correlation).

Could it be that Nin was a similar prefix based more on what you did? Maybe a class of males came into being in early Sumerian civilisation that were not primarily hunters or warriors? Perhaps learned medicine and such things, and thus earned the prefix Nin?

Of course, in the Caduceus like image of Ningizzida we are still presented with the idea that there are TWO serpents, and since they are in mating form it seems likely one of them is female. Perhaps it is intended to be his wife, (Ninazimua or Dazimua), and the ancients would have understood this without needing explanation, just like Catholics understand that in a picture of Mary holding a babe, the babe is Jesus without that needing to be explained.

[deviadah]

Also, just to think about the origins of the word 'woman' derived from 'wyf-man', whereas the male was refered to as 'waep-man' or 'wer-man'. I'm not sure but the term for male simply meant something like 'human with weapon', whilst 'wyf-man' meant 'human with womb'. In other words terms for gender were more about what you did than what you were physically (although there may have been a strong correlation).

Interesting... didn't know about this!

I have a soft heart for linguistics I must admit, but linguistics is also agreat deal of trouble since origins of words are different in each culture/language. Even if some words are - in their root form - similar, many are not since there is not one original language of the human race... unless of course we speak of The Lost Speech (telepathy) or some UFO language - take your pick, but I vote for the former.

I don't think the gender of Ng is that important, same with humans. In the eternal realm of gnosis gender is non-existent!

But it sure is food for thought!



Have a look at THIS by MythMath

[antonchanning]

Interesting... didn't know about this!

I have a soft heart for linguistics I must admit, but linguistics is also agreat deal of trouble since origins of words are different in each culture/language. Even if some words are - in their root form - similar, many are not since there is not one original language of the human race... unless of course we speak of The Lost Speech (telepathy) or some UFO language - take your pick, but I vote for the former.

Not sure I'd agree that the lost speech is telepathy. I'd say it is more likely the kind of communication we had before we invented words. Probably closer to glossolalia, and was mainly used to communicate emotion rather than ideas.

But yeah, I wasn't trying to say 'Nin' meant the same thing as 'wyf', just that like 'wyf' it may have meant something more to do with gender role rather than physical gender. Emphasis on 'may'. I like to speculate as much as anyone else on this forum...

I don't think the gender of Ng is that important, same with humans. In the eternal realm of gnosis gender is non-existent!

I see gender as important, or least it feels important to me. In the eternal realm of gnosis the word 'is' has no meaning, and thus it is just as meaningless to say 'is non-existent' of something in that realm as it is to say 'is real'. When working with historical entities I prefer a respectable level of accuracy where possible rather than deliberately ignoring known facts.

Have a look at THIS by MythMath

Interesting.

I am very much interested in the Hermaphroditic mysteries.

[deviadah]

I guess it depends on how we look at history, not saying you are wrong... just looking at it from a different shore!

As I said your input is interesting and I will take it into consideration for future dabblings!

Keep it up!

[antonchanning]

I guess it depends on how we look at history, not saying you are wrong... just looking at it from a different shore!

I wasn't saying I was right either, just that I think the truth (or respect for what we know is probably true) matters. Of course, some new excavation may unearth evidence that Ningizidda was originally a goddess and underwent a change of sex as Sumerian civilisation developed. Stranger things have happened.

Baphomet may have undergone a change from Female to Male to Hermaphrodite over the centuries for example...

As I said your input is interesting and I will take it into consideration for future dabblings!

Indeed, as is this forum and the ideas expressed by its members, including yourself.

[monkeyblood]

A few chapters on Ningishzidda.Well,I was hoping for a book....so a few chapters will have to do.

A good place for research is the excellent topic on Ningishzidda at occultforums.I got a lot from that.

Zecharia Sitchens book 'The Lost Realms' is also good even though some of his information is suspect.But its always like that,isnt it?
Still its a good place to start.

With the confusion over the meaning of 'nin' in a name I dont think its written in blood that its automatically female.Ninurta being an example.

And I have always believed that Ningishzidda was one of the children of Enki,as does Sitchin as well as other more credible historians whose research I am unable to quote for you at this time.Kramer,perhaps?

I believe Ng's father Enki was originally assigned the Caduceus until it was appropriated by Ningishzida at a later time.

Dan Winter has written some interesting articles about all this incorparating fractals and sacred geometry.Of course there are some parts that you have to suspend judgement on.Its at www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_danwinter08.htm

Good luck with your research,I would like to read the book you have written as well as this forthcoming one.

Monkeyblood

[deviadah]

With the confusion over the meaning of 'nin' in a name I dont think its written in blood that its automatically female. Ninurta being an example.

Yes, it is hard to be certain when it concerns the antediluvian world... that is certain!



And as you say one has to be careful not to believe everything one reads concerning Ng since there are some pretty crazy conspiracies out there that I - personally - feel are a bit too much even for me!

[monkeyblood]

Yes,as much as I like my conspiracies......some of the things that are written!......too much,just too much.The trick is to try to sift it all for the nuggets of gold they bring out that orthodox research would not go near......I've caught Sitchin out on a few things to do with astrology so then I think "How suspect is his other information in fields I know little about?"
Dan Winter has been a cosmonaut in his time,as well....still I think they are worth reading....not alot about Ningishzida in academic research and there is something about him.....