Re: Dry Distillation of Acetate Salts

[Field]

Thanks for the reply everyone,

The way I got the golden vinegar solution was by taking Gold dissolved in distilled water, adding it to vinegar, and letting it putrefy. The solution turned from clear to golden and there was also a film or oil floating on the surface. Also over time the red drops formed as condensation on the lid. This may or may not have something to do with the iron in the metal lid. When I looked at it the other day there were no longer any red drops but instead a red earth on the lid and when I scraped it off it had a glassy appearance. During the process some of the paint on the lid got scraped off exposing the metal, and now more red earth has formed over this exposed metal. This new formation of red earth does not appear to be rust because it is not rusting the metal itself, just appearing on the surface. It seems to be something that is coming from the Gold Acetate solution.

The solution itself smells very sweet and the glassy red substance is very beautiful.

[BeautifulEvil]

Some interesting observations Field.

The way I got the golden vinegar solution was by taking Gold dissolved in distilled water, adding it to vinegar, and letting it putrefy.

How did you dissolve elemental gold in distilled water? It must have been a gold salt?

From what I've read, it seems to all revolve around the philosophical acetone. When it's added to various acids, the strength to extract sulphur from a metal is drastically increased.

[Field]

No it was not a gold salt. It was elemental gold dissolved in distilled water. And I didn't do it, an Alchemist friend of mine did and I don't know how he did it. But if anybody is interested in getting some there is a possibility I can help.

[k89]

Also over time the red drops formed as condensation on the lid.

Ferric acetate is reddish brown in solution form.
It is possible that some of the acetic acid in the gold solution reacted with the iron in the lid , but,I'm not sure if acetic acid is volatile enough to evaporate and condense on the lid.

This oil will extract the sulphur from all the metals

Did you see the picture I posted earlier.(The one with a red oil floating on it)
200 mg of gold digested in the acetone distilled of gold acetate ,left undisturbed for two weeks ,yielded a distinct layer of red oil on the surface.A drop of the oil added to water resulted in a beautiful iridescent film on the surface of the water.Within a few seconds the iridescence diminished.

[BeautifulEvil]

200 mg of gold digested in the acetone distilled of gold acetate ,left undisturbed for two weeks ,yielded a distinct layer of red oil on the surface.A drop of the oil added to water resulted in a beautiful iridescent film on the surface of the water.Within a few seconds the iridescence diminished.

Sorry, I didn't look at the image very close. That's really interesting though!
Didn't you say the acetone, when freshly distilled from the gold acetate, looks kind of milky? IF that's the case, then it would back up the claims of the alchemists which say their philosophical mercury is a milky white substance.

If you perform the experiment again, can you try digesting the acetone from the gold acetate distillation @ 40c for a few weeks?

[Field]

Thanks for the reply k89,

That's a really nice picture you have of the red oil! So you are saying that you take the gold acetate dissolved in vinegar and when you distill it at the right temperature it produces acetone? Do you dissolve the gold acetate salt seperately as a dry distillation or do you do it with the vinegar too?

That's interesting about the irridescent oil forming too! It would have been interesting if you could have captured some

As far as my experiment, I don't think the vinegar can be called acetic acid anymore because it has a very different smell. It has a sweet smell and it no longer is irritating to the mucous membranes like vinegar. It was only the vapors from the solution that formed the red drop on the lid. The lid is metal but initially it was covered with some kind of paint layer so if it has to do with the metal turning the drop red I don't see how when the metal was not exposed. I think the red is just a concentrated color of the Gold Acetate solution that is caused from a very slow and mild distillation occurring naturally within the sealed container, but now that the paint has been scraped off a little and the metal is exposed it definitely seems to be drawing some kind of solid red substance through the air above the solution.

[BeautifulEvil]

That's a really nice picture you have of the red oil! So you are saying that you take the gold acetate dissolved in vinegar and when you distill it at the right temperature it produces acetone? Do you dissolve the gold acetate salt seperately as a dry distillation or do you do it with the vinegar too?

Ah I know I'm not k89, but I believe I can answer your questions. The gold acetate salt should be made first. This salt should ideally be lightly calcined at 120F to remove trace water. As you know there may be small amounts of acetic acid residue present, and this should also ideally be removed. After you have the pure lightly calcined gold acetate you may proceed with the dry distillation.

I remember reading that the temperature should be slowly graduated and adjusted over many days to obtain the BEST products.

Use a retort and connect to it a decent size two necked RB receiver flask (heavy wall), one opening will be connected to the retort, the other will connect to a lower heavy duty one neck RB receiver flask (this should be kept cold throughout the dry distillation process). All the joints should be air tight, and it may be best to lute each joint.

Then start the distillation at 75F and slowly increase it to a few hundred F over the course of a week or so. In the end you will be left with the most volatile mercurial products in the second flask, and the other sulphurous products in the first flask. The volatile products will mostly be acetone.

EDIT: Also this should always be done in darkness, because gold salts are photosensitive and will readily decompose in presence of light or the sun (especially the sun). Life is nourished in darkness, but light is the destruction of life.

[k89]

The gold acetate salt should be made first. This salt should ideally be lightly calcined at 120F to remove trace water. As you know there may be small amounts of acetic acid residue present, and this should also ideally be removed. After you have the pure lightly calcined gold acetate you may proceed with the dry distillation.

Yes that is how I did it.
Like i said earlier, gold acetate distilled on a gas burner (not sure of exact temperature) yields acetone whereas at low temperatures (<300 Celsius) it yields yellow tinted acid.

Use a retort and connect to it a decent size two necked RB receiver flask (heavy wall), one opening will be connected to the retort, the other will connect to a lower heavy duty one neck RB receiver flask (this should be kept cold throughout the dry distillation process). All the joints should be air tight, and it may be best to lute each joint.

I've used nothing more than a simple distillation unit.
But using two retorts would be the most efficient way of separating the products.

As far as my experiment, I don't think the vinegar can be called acetic acid anymore because it has a very different smell. It has a sweet smell and it no longer is irritating to the mucous membranes like vinegar. It was only the vapors from the solution that formed the red drop on the lid. The lid is metal but initially it was covered with some kind of paint layer so if it has to do with the metal turning the drop red I don't see how when the metal was not exposed.

Ah,this is interesting.
Have you tried using a glass/plastic lid instead of a metal one?
Could you elaborate on the process used in making the gold acetate?

It was elemental gold dissolved in distilled water.

Are you referring to colloidal gold here?

[BeautifulEvil]

I've used nothing more than a simple distillation unit.
But using two retorts would be the most efficient way of separating the products.

Yeah, you may use a single retort and receiver flask. This results in all the products ending up in the single flask which may be separated again by a slow distillation of all the liquid in the receiver flask. I mentioned using two flasks because it's sort of easier to just collect the acetone separately from the others since it's the most volatile and will end up in the cooled second flask.

[k89]

Ferric acetate on dry distillation gives a tinted acid too.
Not sure of the color.It is very faint. In my opinion ,it is tinted brown.
It is definitely an acid (bubbles with carbonates).
(Click to enlarge)


In the photo,the test-tube on the left contains the acid and the other contains common water.

After adding a few drops of water to the acid , it turned milky.
The acetic acid from gold acetate also turned milky when water was added.

[BeautifulEvil]

Ah, so it was the acetic acid which turned milky?

[k89]

Ah, so it was the acetic acid which turned milky?

Yes

[k89]

Silver acetate on dry distillation at 300 Celsius gives a nearly colorless acid.The acid has a very faint yellow tint.
So faint that I noticed the color only when I compared it with a test-tube of water.
This acid too turns milky white when water is added.

[BeautifulEvil]

Silver acetate on dry distillation at 300 Celsius gives a nearly colorless acid.The acid has a very faint yellow tint.
So faint that I noticed the color only when I compared it with a test-tube of water.
This acid too turns milky white when water is added.

Did it only give acid or did you also get acetone? Did it smell strange like all the others?

I'm glad you confirmed this with silver acetate! That was another suspicion of mine. Very good indeed. Can I ask if you've tried to produce a Stone from these? That would be on my list of "things to try next."

[k89]

Did it only give acid or did you also get acetone? Did it smell strange like all the others?

I've done the distillation at low temperature only and this yielded an acid.
At higher temperatures it may give acetone(similar to gold).I will be trying this soon.
The acid smells the same as all the other acids I've obtained by dry distillation.

Can I ask if you've tried to produce a Stone from these?

Not yet.
Working with acetates is very interesting.I need to learn more before attempting to make a Stone.