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Aforementioned theories/analysis.
Lawliet Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:36 am
Yo.
Here's a rough collection of my theories on certain parts of alchemy. I have quite a chaotic mind in which I have "thought" beyond language... so I often experience difficulties telling other people what's in my head. Maybe related to my suspected Asperger's?
Anyway... keep in mind that I've read very little on alchemy so forgive me if I touch upon anything that's already been covered. I've read maybe 7 books which cover alchemy in the usual subjective view & given that they all mention the same things and not what I'm about to write, I'm pretty sure this is a new angle - at least as far as what's in the mainstream goes, anyway.
Moving on...
The first thing that comes to mind is the cryptic nature of passed-on knowledge by past alchemists. I've got some theories on why this is. Due to mental blocks, I can only summon up 1 so I'll have to edit when the others come back to me.
1) The general idea is that alchemists wanted to keep alchemy in their 'circles'.
2) As I know from experience, there're some things which are just hard to express in plain use of language & are either better expressed in riddles or that's just how they accidentally come out. This has earned me the title of "whitterer" in the past. ;/
I think it's also possible that the degree to which things are made cryptic may have been amplified by inept alchemists trying to pass themselves off as master alchemists, re-wording old texts as if they have cracked the system when really, they've no idea either. It's somewhat funny how a lot of the texts which start "I will here completely reveal the secrets of alchemy..." end up being just as cryptic as any other. There could be a reason for that (e.g. alchemy being impossible to simplify), but if you look at the human race and the egotistical nature of people and such like, it's probably safe to say that they were just glory seekers and/or couldn't face defeat.
Another small thing that I've not heard mentioned anywhere else is in relation to the quest for immortality. It is stated that spiritual immortality is all about perfecting yourself. While pondering over where this may have originated, I came up with the idea of someone or a number of people who may have questioned how it's possible for a "self" which lives in this world -- a world which alchemy often labels as a dream -- could exist in a different universe... be it the afterlife or whatever else. Therefore, they set out to awaken themselves and to abandon their opinionated and conditioned view of the world for one which understands rather than deludes itself with what it believes to be knowledge. Such a being would be more capable of existing in a universe completely different to the waking world.
If you also take that belief, you can match it up with physical 'immortality' and even invincibility, too. It's no secret that there's a degree of mind control over one's life. A strong person can survive a deadly illness, cure their own cancer (it's been done) and lift objects over 10x their body weight*. When you stop seeing dying as "dying" and see it as a situation in which an agent (be it bacteria or a bullet) is obstructing your body's normal function, you can "trick" yourself into staying alive instead of giving up. You know what I mean.
* You may be wondering how anyone with a true awareness of the universe (who would obviously think, "the mass of this object is too great for my physical strength to fight the pull of gravity") could then defy it, but you just have to look to certain sword art masters in Japan. The guy praised as the best swordsman in the world -- whose name I can't remember -- has demonstrated how he can turn a person on their side when they're lying down by pushing against their hand with his pinky when in an armwrestle sort of position. He didn't say this, but I thought into it myself (as I do) and what jumps out to me is, when you're pushing against their hand, you're pushing against their hand. If you imagine their entire body as a solid mass, with the hand and arm being like a lever, it's not a case of pushing against them, but disturbing their balance. Imagine doing it to a statue. The same thing also applies when you imagine that your body is rooted in the ground & even 5 people can't push you over.
... Went slightly off topic there.
As for the roots of alchemy... I don't think it started how it is today, with this divide between the spiritual and the physical. It was either one or the other or a mix of the two. Somewhere down the line, people started feeling the need to choose between [what's now believed to be naively following the physical promises of alchemy] & [taking the texts with a pinch of salt and deriving a spiritual belief system from it].
I do believe there's a single "philosopher's stone" and I have a firm idea of what it is and why, but I'm in two minds about sharing it... primarily due to ridicule. I'll think about it and maybe write some stuff down so that if I do decide to share, I don't have to battle with mindblocks every 3 words.
2 slightly unrelated things I'd like to mention while I'm at it.
1) Anyone familiar with mental tuning/channeling? Those who've studied psychology are probably aware of it. Basically, when objectively looking over something, you'll receive it according to the "mode" your mind is in. For example, if you read an alchemical text whilst thinking that water is the prima materia, you'll confirm that water is the prima materia. As an exercise for discovering the philosopher's stone, read some texts 8 times, each with a different one of the following in mind: water, fire, earth, air, love, hate, "poop" and urine.
2) As a result of conditioning from formal education, most people are prone to end their search for answers when they find "the" correct one. Every single question has multiple answers. Is Linux better than Windows? Depends on the user's needs. Is 1 + 1 really 2? Depends on what 1 and 2 mean to the person performing the calculation. Perhaps it'd be beneficial for you (used collectively so don't take this personally) to be more aware of this and maybe make an effort to search for more solutions to the daily problems that life throws at you, even if you only choose to use one of them? Overanalyzing and second-guessing absolutely everything -- like any other way of thinking -- has its pros and cons. I know it well...
I'm very much interested in feedback so please post away if you've got anything to say/ask.
Here's a rough collection of my theories on certain parts of alchemy. I have quite a chaotic mind in which I have "thought" beyond language... so I often experience difficulties telling other people what's in my head. Maybe related to my suspected Asperger's?
Anyway... keep in mind that I've read very little on alchemy so forgive me if I touch upon anything that's already been covered. I've read maybe 7 books which cover alchemy in the usual subjective view & given that they all mention the same things and not what I'm about to write, I'm pretty sure this is a new angle - at least as far as what's in the mainstream goes, anyway.
Moving on...
The first thing that comes to mind is the cryptic nature of passed-on knowledge by past alchemists. I've got some theories on why this is. Due to mental blocks, I can only summon up 1 so I'll have to edit when the others come back to me.
1) The general idea is that alchemists wanted to keep alchemy in their 'circles'.
2) As I know from experience, there're some things which are just hard to express in plain use of language & are either better expressed in riddles or that's just how they accidentally come out. This has earned me the title of "whitterer" in the past. ;/
I think it's also possible that the degree to which things are made cryptic may have been amplified by inept alchemists trying to pass themselves off as master alchemists, re-wording old texts as if they have cracked the system when really, they've no idea either. It's somewhat funny how a lot of the texts which start "I will here completely reveal the secrets of alchemy..." end up being just as cryptic as any other. There could be a reason for that (e.g. alchemy being impossible to simplify), but if you look at the human race and the egotistical nature of people and such like, it's probably safe to say that they were just glory seekers and/or couldn't face defeat.
Another small thing that I've not heard mentioned anywhere else is in relation to the quest for immortality. It is stated that spiritual immortality is all about perfecting yourself. While pondering over where this may have originated, I came up with the idea of someone or a number of people who may have questioned how it's possible for a "self" which lives in this world -- a world which alchemy often labels as a dream -- could exist in a different universe... be it the afterlife or whatever else. Therefore, they set out to awaken themselves and to abandon their opinionated and conditioned view of the world for one which understands rather than deludes itself with what it believes to be knowledge. Such a being would be more capable of existing in a universe completely different to the waking world.
If you also take that belief, you can match it up with physical 'immortality' and even invincibility, too. It's no secret that there's a degree of mind control over one's life. A strong person can survive a deadly illness, cure their own cancer (it's been done) and lift objects over 10x their body weight*. When you stop seeing dying as "dying" and see it as a situation in which an agent (be it bacteria or a bullet) is obstructing your body's normal function, you can "trick" yourself into staying alive instead of giving up. You know what I mean.
* You may be wondering how anyone with a true awareness of the universe (who would obviously think, "the mass of this object is too great for my physical strength to fight the pull of gravity") could then defy it, but you just have to look to certain sword art masters in Japan. The guy praised as the best swordsman in the world -- whose name I can't remember -- has demonstrated how he can turn a person on their side when they're lying down by pushing against their hand with his pinky when in an armwrestle sort of position. He didn't say this, but I thought into it myself (as I do) and what jumps out to me is, when you're pushing against their hand, you're pushing against their hand. If you imagine their entire body as a solid mass, with the hand and arm being like a lever, it's not a case of pushing against them, but disturbing their balance. Imagine doing it to a statue. The same thing also applies when you imagine that your body is rooted in the ground & even 5 people can't push you over.
... Went slightly off topic there.
As for the roots of alchemy... I don't think it started how it is today, with this divide between the spiritual and the physical. It was either one or the other or a mix of the two. Somewhere down the line, people started feeling the need to choose between [what's now believed to be naively following the physical promises of alchemy] & [taking the texts with a pinch of salt and deriving a spiritual belief system from it].
I do believe there's a single "philosopher's stone" and I have a firm idea of what it is and why, but I'm in two minds about sharing it... primarily due to ridicule. I'll think about it and maybe write some stuff down so that if I do decide to share, I don't have to battle with mindblocks every 3 words.
2 slightly unrelated things I'd like to mention while I'm at it.
1) Anyone familiar with mental tuning/channeling? Those who've studied psychology are probably aware of it. Basically, when objectively looking over something, you'll receive it according to the "mode" your mind is in. For example, if you read an alchemical text whilst thinking that water is the prima materia, you'll confirm that water is the prima materia. As an exercise for discovering the philosopher's stone, read some texts 8 times, each with a different one of the following in mind: water, fire, earth, air, love, hate, "poop" and urine.
2) As a result of conditioning from formal education, most people are prone to end their search for answers when they find "the" correct one. Every single question has multiple answers. Is Linux better than Windows? Depends on the user's needs. Is 1 + 1 really 2? Depends on what 1 and 2 mean to the person performing the calculation. Perhaps it'd be beneficial for you (used collectively so don't take this personally) to be more aware of this and maybe make an effort to search for more solutions to the daily problems that life throws at you, even if you only choose to use one of them? Overanalyzing and second-guessing absolutely everything -- like any other way of thinking -- has its pros and cons. I know it well...
I'm very much interested in feedback so please post away if you've got anything to say/ask.
Lawliet- Visita
- Number of posts : 3
Registration date : 2007-12-10
Re: Aforementioned theories/analysis.
BeautifulEvil Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:01 am
Wow, first off what a long post!
These make complete sense to me. I believe they didn't want the profane to practice the art of alchemy as they would only corrupt such an art.
Sometimes it's better to be cryptic instead of stating the truths out in the open. I believe if the secrets were stated out in the open, many people would disregard such crackpot ideas. If you search for the truths yourself, you're bound to believe them over what somebody tells you.
I believe this all has to do with mind over matter. In the sense that matter originates from the mind, and thus the mind has control and dominion over matter.
I believe alchemy is an ANCIENT art, and dates back to the very beginning of civilization. This is a theory, but if people did live longer in the ancient past then it was on account of alchemy and life extension. I'm mainly thinking about the lifespan of mankind from the book of genesis.
It is weird how the mind chooses to single out things through the use of word play and symbology. If you read many of the old alchemical texts, you will see a definite trend in the process.
Oh what a synchronicity! I'm sure I also have Asperger's Syndrome. We have the same odd writing style that tends to plague individuals with AS.
Since we're mentioning AS, have you ever watched Death Note?
I'm an EXACT replica of L -- it's very strange.
1) The general idea is that alchemists wanted to keep alchemy in their 'circles'.
2) As I know from experience, there're some things which are just hard to express in plain use of language & are either better expressed in riddles or that's just how they accidentally come out. This has earned me the title of "whitterer" in the past. ;/
These make complete sense to me. I believe they didn't want the profane to practice the art of alchemy as they would only corrupt such an art.
It's somewhat funny how a lot of the texts which start "I will here completely reveal the secrets of alchemy..." end up being just as cryptic as any other.
Sometimes it's better to be cryptic instead of stating the truths out in the open. I believe if the secrets were stated out in the open, many people would disregard such crackpot ideas. If you search for the truths yourself, you're bound to believe them over what somebody tells you.
* You may be wondering how anyone with a true awareness of the universe (who would obviously think, "the mass of this object is too great for my physical strength to fight the pull of gravity") could then defy it, but you just have to look to certain sword art masters in Japan. The guy praised as the best swordsman in the world -- whose name I can't remember -- has demonstrated how he can turn a person on their side when they're lying down by pushing against their hand with his pinky when in an armwrestle sort of position. He didn't say this, but I thought into it myself (as I do) and what jumps out to me is, when you're pushing against their hand, you're pushing against their hand. If you imagine their entire body as a solid mass, with the hand and arm being like a lever, it's not a case of pushing against them, but disturbing their balance. Imagine doing it to a statue. The same thing also applies when you imagine that your body is rooted in the ground & even 5 people can't push you over.
I believe this all has to do with mind over matter. In the sense that matter originates from the mind, and thus the mind has control and dominion over matter.
As for the roots of alchemy... I don't think it started how it is today, with this divide between the spiritual and the physical. It was either one or the other or a mix of the two. Somewhere down the line, people started feeling the need to choose between [what's now believed to be naively following the physical promises of alchemy] & [taking the texts with a pinch of salt and deriving a spiritual belief system from it].
I believe alchemy is an ANCIENT art, and dates back to the very beginning of civilization. This is a theory, but if people did live longer in the ancient past then it was on account of alchemy and life extension. I'm mainly thinking about the lifespan of mankind from the book of genesis.
1) Anyone familiar with mental tuning/channeling? Those who've studied psychology are probably aware of it. Basically, when objectively looking over something, you'll receive it according to the "mode" your mind is in. For example, if you read an alchemical text whilst thinking that water is the prima materia, you'll confirm that water is the prima materia. As an exercise for discovering the philosopher's stone, read some texts 8 times, each with a different one of the following in mind: water, fire, earth, air, love, hate, "poop" and urine.
It is weird how the mind chooses to single out things through the use of word play and symbology. If you read many of the old alchemical texts, you will see a definite trend in the process.
Maybe related to my suspected Asperger's?
Oh what a synchronicity! I'm sure I also have Asperger's Syndrome. We have the same odd writing style that tends to plague individuals with AS.
Since we're mentioning AS, have you ever watched Death Note?
I'm an EXACT replica of L -- it's very strange.
BeautifulEvil- Occultum
- Number of posts : 754
Age : 37
Registration date : 2007-10-10 -
Re: Aforementioned theories/analysis.
deviadah Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:14 pm
Also the fact that alternative points of view were quite dangerous under the thousand year rule of the Church, so secrecy was important in regards to this. I reckon this is why Alchemist said they could create real gold, rather than waking up an inner God! The former is ok by the Church, the latter is not!Lawliet wrote: The first thing that comes to mind is the cryptic nature of passed-on knowledge by past alchemists.
It is a nice post and food for thought... but I do find your mind difficult since you go left and right at the same time... but everyone has different styles of writing and once I get to know yours I am sure I will understand you quicker!
Anyway I agree that spiritual vs. practical is a silly business and there won't be any such wars fought here!
I've been accused of AS, but I don't think I suffer from it...
Freaks!
deviadah- Occultum
- Number of posts : 875
Registration date : 2007-10-08 -
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