yo

[carabric]

Not a day goes by that alchemy is not in my thoughts. I've been following Ariadnes's thread for some time now and feel I am at a point where I can share some thoughts on the matter, if anyone would have it. I only read source material and am not interested in most contemporary thoughts on alchemy (Jungian, Thelema, Theosophist or certain unfounded ideas in practical alchemy). Should I post a topic, raise a point, or disagree with someone else's understanding of alchemy I will do as the true sages before me have done and quote from source material to back my opinion(s). These days, many seem to have novel ideas regarding alchemy- however they seem unable to back their claims with anything from the historical record...or at the very least they pick and choose whatever fits into their over hammered ideas regarding alchemy. Just because you force the square peg in the round hole doesn't mean it belongs there. I would love to find others who understand our cabala (not Kaballah) more thoroughly then I...but they are a rare bread of people, and I'm afraid I can only hold my breath so long.

[spectre]

Welcome!

It's good to have someone more "orthodox" here, I would sure like to hear what you have to say.. I don't necessarily agree with your strict outlook (I'm myself reading "Jung on Alchemy" at the moment) but I plan to try to learn more about the sources and practical alchemy as time goes on as I'm very interested in learning more on alchemists, such as Paracelsus and Nicholas Flamel.

But I see that your profile image has the tarot card "Death".. so at least you study tarot as well

[deviadah]

Hi there!

Welcome to Alchemy Forums!



The historical alchemical records are worthy of citation by the way...

[carabric]

I don't study the tarot per se...by that I mean I don't use them for divination or to do reading(s). It's not to say I don't think they are of some benefit to better understand certain situations when using them in this capacity. However I'm of the firm belief that the Major Arcana of the tarot are in fact interchangeable with the various processes of alchemy. These ideas are nothing new, but for posterity I will give my opinion which complies with various writings of the sages before me...atleast in my mind. I'll elucidate my point(s) more thoroughly here and if it is better suited to be in a different section of the board then by all means feel free to move it (if the moderator deems necessary).

We'll start out of order with the 13th card or Death, since it is my chosen Avatar at this point in time. And I'll only do three or four cards so I don't bore people....to death.

This is by far the most sourced comparison I've seen of the interchangeable relation between the Major Arcana and Alchemy. Death in the Arcana is often translated as the ending of a cycle, loss, conclusion, sadness, or transition into a new state(source:wikipedia). The list could go on and on depending on who's shuffling the cards...but the one which closely follows alchemy in my mind would be the transition towards a new state. That state of course being putrefication since we are talking of death...and that is what death does. This point is more clearly spoken of by Flamel (Hieroglyphics Ch.III)... And this dissolution is by the envious Philosophers called Death, Destruction, and Perdition, because that the natures change their form, and from hence are proceeded so many Allegories of dead men, tombs and sepulchres. In the later stages of the work when proceeding on the true path during the white and red work, or more aptly the work of the moon and sun, death is instead seen as an eclipse of the sun and moon. And by this it should be understood that death is a constant throughout the work. All lush forests are fed by death...this is why in the true work they will always say- no work can be effected without the first putrefication, anything contrary to this is often refuted as being in no way philosophical or true to the nature of alchemy. Or the words of Edward Kelley:The beginning of our work is the Black Raven, which, like all things that are to grow and receive life, must first putrefy. For putrefaction is a necessary condition of solution, as solution is of birth and regeneration.

The next card I'll touch on is Strength.

This cards interpretation is often described as self control, being solid, patience, compassion, composure, stability, and perseverance(source:wikipedia). The card itself is often depicted as a woman battling a lion, older cards feature her breaking a large stone pillar. In my mind this would be the pillar from the entrance of Solomons temple named Boaz while the lion in some regards represents Jachin. Of course in the masonic tradition these are seen as the black (Boaz) and white(Jachin) pillars one must pass through in order to gain entry to the temple of Sol...or Solomon. They are often referred to as twin pillars since they are from the same source, much in the same way that in alchemy you will find mention that all things are derived from the one thing, or prima materia. But at this stage they are polar opposites, whence their opposing colors- and they are in a constant state of battle much the same way that the women is battling the lion on the card. Or as Philalethes would have it Eagles battling a Lion, or Flamel would have it:These are the two Serpents, given and sent by Juno, (that is, the nature Metallic) the which the strong Hercules, that is to say, the sage and wise man must strangle in his cradle, that is, overcome and kill them, to make them putrify, corrupt, and ingender, at the beginning of his work. This is obviously a daunting task since the strength of Hercules is required in order to persevere, and his twelve labors alone are of a historic quality that has been remembered throughout the test of time.

And of course one of my favorite cards...number 0 or the fool.

All beginnings have their unknown variables. We set out on this quest with nothing more then our theory and faith to guide us- since we are for the most part, left to blindly follow this path. Often the fool is seen at the edge of a precipice one foot ready to take the plummet the other on firm and familiar ground. Should he choose to continue it requires, for a long time, a very large leap of faith. If he's incorrect he will crash on the ground below and all is lost. However if his faith and theory are true, he will land in the ocean. Having landed here and no way to climb back up the cliff, he must swim out into the ocean. Slowly the ocean grows darker till the bottom is just as black as the night sky...and fortunate for our fool an island is not far off from this. Historically this would be the island of Lemnos in which Jason and his Argonauts set off with black sails full of wind toward. Having set foot on the island he is no longer a fool, but is then able to call himself a magician or if you believe Fulcanelli, in the older variation the magician was called the Alchemist. And it should be noted that the fool is often seen carrying a staff which comes in handy when separating or dividing two serpents.

[BeautifulEvil]

Welcome friend!

I'm sorry I haven't had enough time to officially welcome you yet. We've already butted heads a few times, but I feel we've both reached an understanding.

Good post about the major arcana and their relation to alchemy. I'll go ahead and leave this here, but deviadah may want to split it off into another thread.

[Aluna]

Welcome to the forums. I hope I can learn some new things from you.

[Philosolapis]

Well, i'd have to say historical backing associated with the most traditional art of alchemy is hard to find in layman's terms, it's all cyphered and most of the teachings are directly from teachers in the mystery schools. Now Thelema is bad news entirely, anyone who argues has no pity from me, the Golden Dawn and OTO are both derived from false bases, and are dangerous to join. Now I am in no way saying the people in these Frats are evil or bad or anything, but those who created them certainly had a few screws loose. I'd go with the more traditional and oldest of orders, within the authentic Rosicrucian circle. FRC, AMORC, CR+C are all good choices, there are others worthy of noting, but that shall be saved for another time. I'm glad to see you on the forums, and look forward to sharing knowledge with you. : )
LLL
Blessings

[carabric]

Well, I'm just as dubious of the Golden Dawn, Thelema, etc... I don't really see them as dangerous per se...but redirection is the word I'd use. By that I mean, if you're going to follow a system which has a pick and choose style of plagiarism then you may as well just read source material. Now some might say that you need a teacher to help you in this quest and that is what these fraternities and orders provide. While I would have on numerous occasions been very grateful to have a true teacher to lead me through the maze, I'm glad the path wasn't muddied from the guidance of those- who themselves, are at square one and just as lost as the rest, though pretending Adept-hood. Just because they go through the motions of ritual, doesn't mean they understand the depths of what they do. Modern day Christians would be a good example of how muddied the water can get. The sincere Adepts will always give thanks to the true and subtle teacher, that being the One True God. Though at first it will appear that you have discovered some great secret, in hindsight it would have been the faint whisper of God and Nature that brought Ariadne's thread to you. And these are the only teachers I feel anyone needs, though the true writings definitely and most certainly shorten the way. Besides, true adept teachers are as rare as the confections they bring about...and though my questions are fewer then when I started, it would still be nice to have a friend.

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