The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  Illen A. Cluf on Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:36 pm

pierre wrote:But I am fully convinced that the methods now being used to get the stone, are inadequate and are on false paths. ¿Why? Because our forefathers prohibited use acids or fire vulgar to work their substances. Does the nature uses glass or flames to perform their metalic productions?

Not all of them prohibited the use of vulgar fire. For example, Fulcanelli repeatedly states that the Secret Fire is "excited" by the action of the exterior fire. So, while the Secret Fire is not an actual fire, it requires the heat of the vulgar fire in order to begin its action.

In Le Mystere des Cathedrales, he even identifies, on Pages 125-6, what temperature this exterior fire should be raised to (up to approximately 300 degrees C).

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the secret fire

Post  sealedflask on Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:35 pm

I've never read anything from Paracelsus other than this on the secret fire-

"... in another way operates the invisible fire by which we understand the rays of the sun which also is shewn by a mirror or steel plate or crystal and displays its operation and effect concerning which fire the ancients wrote scarcely anything By this fire indeed the three principles in any corporeal substance can be separated on a table Of so wonderful a virtue is this fire that by means of it metals are liquefied and all fat and fluxible things all combustible things indeed can be reduced to carbon and ashes on a table and without fire"
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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  deviadah on Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:09 am

sealedflask wrote:I've never read anything from Paracelsus...
What the hell!

You simply must read stuff by Paracelsus if you can locate it... highly recommended!

There are some stuff available online, just google it!

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  BeautifulEvil on Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:21 am

You simply must read stuff by Paracelsus if you can locate it... highly recommended!
I think sealedflask was speaking in context of the Secret Fire, and that Paracelsus only mentioned it once in his writings.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  deviadah on Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:07 am

Ah, yes I see now... I missed that!

Idiot

Keep in mind I wrote my post very early in the morning... if that is a worthy excuse!

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The Secret Fire of The Philosophers

Post  pierre on Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:03 am

BeautifulEvil Wrote:

False paths you say? How can we say which paths are true and which are false?

I trust very much in the warnings of the old alchemists. One is that if the fire for more subtle it is, touches the metal seeds, they die. I am convinced of this, really! The old alchemists were more sincere and less envious in his writings that modern authors which to hide the generosity of the firsts, distorted everything.
The proof of this is the honest criticism of some authors, on the envious: "I wish they had never written a single word about alchemy, because with their words, rather than help, misinform". Have you heard phrases like this before, right?

Here is another example of what I consider a true way: The subject is one and it is taken out everything you need. ¡Beautiful words!

Another exemple: The vulgar alchemists work with a lot of effort and great expense; with all kinds of kilns and fireworks and a thousand different subjects. In short: if God has prepared everything from scratch, the alchemists vulgar, from all make nothing .

I will talk of the alchemists vulgar: indeed, they no longer away from the true path, in order to seduce and give opportunity for you to edhieras their false views ...

The text is: "Instruction of one father to his son about the solar tree"

And believe me, BE; I feel deeply in my heart that in simple words such as these, are more true than any alchemical formula that any modern author can offer ... But, of course, that´s just my believe...

phliosehea wrote:

No I do not know anyone who has, but I do believe I understand the method.

Please, my brother, humbly ask you, can you teach me the method, then?

Illen wrote;

In Le Mystere des Cathedrales, he even identifies, on Pages 125-6, what temperature this exterior fire should be raised to (up to approximately 300 degrees C).

Yes, I am agree, but (always there´s a but, ¿isn`t?) Fulcanelli warned about the degrees of fire that everything that was said was not true. Remember that? I tell you this, instead: The four degrees of fire, have nothing in common with the intensity of the flames.

Not all of them prohibited the use of vulgar fire. For example, Fulcanelli repeatedly states that the Secret Fire is "excited" by the action of the exterior fire

Exterior fire; not necessarily common fire...

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  solomon levi on Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:08 pm

I'm just realising, in a more concrete way, how some of the authors who spoke of "one thing"
were speaking of the grapevine which is one thing from which can be extracted three things:
salt of tartar, alcohol and vinegar.

But I don't see this as the first matter that Pierre is speaking of.
Obviously, metals don't evolve from grapevines.

There's a nice work on the vine towards the end of Junius' book on Plant Alchemy,
for anyone interested.

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The Secret Fire of The Philosophers

Post  pierre on Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:47 pm

Hi Solomon Levi;

Maybe you can get a book called super textum hermetis, whose author is Ortolan, and talks about the quintessence. The author describes the first matter very veiled, but it is very plausible that it is the wine..

"The author makes it clear that this first matter it does not have to be a mineral, because the alchemists called lapidem nostrum benedictum any natural substance from which it can separate its essential elements through alchemical operations". (José Luis Guerrero)

I do not know, maybe this book you can be useful for your research.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  Illen A. Cluf on Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:51 pm

pierre wrote:Illen wrote;

In Le Mystere des Cathedrales, he even identifies, on Pages 125-6, what temperature this exterior fire should be raised to (up to approximately 300 degrees C).

Yes, I am agree, but (always there´s a but, ¿isn`t?) Fulcanelli warned about the degrees of fire that everything that was said was not true. Remember that? I tell you this, instead: The four degrees of fire, have nothing in common with the intensity of the flames.

Not all of them prohibited the use of vulgar fire. For example, Fulcanelli repeatedly states that the Secret Fire is "excited" by the action of the exterior fire

Exterior fire; not necessarily common fire...

That's an interesting thought, Pierre - that the exterior fire is also not a real fire. I never thought about it from that perspective, and will have to re-read the relevant sections from that perspective.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:12 am

In many cases, the exterior fire is a substance that is added and it causes reactions in the compound. There are four fires throughout the work, according to Fulcanelli, and all came successively from the subject at work. Four kinds of different salts, depending on the materials to work.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  solomon levi on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:39 am

pierre wrote:Hi Solomon Levi;

Maybe you can get a book called super textum hermetis, whose author is Ortolan, and talks about the quintessence. The author describes the first matter very veiled, but it is very plausible that it is the wine..

"The author makes it clear that this first matter it does not have to be a mineral, because the alchemists called lapidem nostrum benedictum any natural substance from which it can separate its essential elements through alchemical operations". (José Luis Guerrero)

I do not know, maybe this book you can be useful for your research.


Thank you.
Ortolan? Probably Hortulanus?
I'll look at both.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  solomon levi on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:47 am

NDCent,
Thanks for all you've shared on alchemy.

Feel better?

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  BeautifulEvil on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:56 am

What all you people should be talking about by now, is how much the stone has changed your life, and how THANKFUL you are to me, NDC, for even writing these books and websites that show you how to make the REAL stone. But I guess some of you just can't stand the thought of me being right this whole time.
What chance of fate! How lovely it is to have NDC grace us with his amazing knowledge and wits. Sick

I could easily delete your post, but that wouldn't be very democratic of me would it? There is indeed substance in your post. All students of the art should take heed of your post. It should serve as an prime example of what NOT to do. All true alchemists follow a strict set of ethics and guidelines, but these are not to be found in your posts.

Our board is a board of REAL alchemists. You've performed a lot of experiments, but that does not make you an alchemist. Aye, it makes you an archemist - a puffer. I believe you should take a good look in the mirror - you've become the thing you hate the most.

And for those of you who think you know better than me, babble on...
Sir, you are the only one I see here babbling on like a madman.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:45 pm

Hi Solomn Levi,

Thank you. Ortolan? Probably Hortulanus? I'll look at both.

The name is Ortolan of paris; there is no connection with Hortulanus at all

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There is a difference between a teacher and a preacher!

Post  deviadah on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:48 pm

100%TRUTH wrote:And for those of you who think you know better than me, babble on...
“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.” - Albert Einstein
“To become truly great, one has to stand with people, not above them.” - Charles de Montesquieu
If you want to partake in discussion please refrain from Paradigm Bashing which is, to quote m1thr0s, exactly what it sounds like - if you resort to telling others that their beliefs or ideas are idiotic or inferior simply because they do not conform to you own!

All posts henceforth that are not relevant to this thread shall be deleted by a moderator!

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  solomon levi on Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:32 pm

pierre wrote:Hi Solomn Levi,

Thank you. Ortolan? Probably Hortulanus? I'll look at both.

The name is Ortolan of paris; there is no connection with Hortulanus at all

Ok. That's a new one.
I'll check it out.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  solomon levi on Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:42 pm

Okay. Here's that clue from the Fulcanelli group I spoke of.
This is a part of a letter from Milosz to Dom Bernard Geradon.
Milosz is Oscar Vladislas de Lubicz Milosz.
He gave Rene Schwaller his last name - de Lubicz.
And Schwaller appears to be the true source behind the Fulcanelli material.

"It is interesting to follow people of the Middle ages on their
pilgrimages to Saint-Jacques de Compostelle and other magical
sites because behind the deliberate and necessary obscurity of
their allegorical relations are hidden truths, the abrupt revealing of
which would risk dangerously demoralising the two opposing camps
of the faithful and the materialists. In the most natural way, these truths
derive from the immediate knowledge of a certain substance that has
been described in almost identical terms by all the ancient chemists,
a substance, moreover, whose common and sacred names each of us
utters every day, especially between the fall and spring equinoxes.
...Let us add, however, before leaving this subject that the material in
question resembles only very distantly the mysterious "nostoc"."

Pierre - does this makes sense to you?
I assume the word would be a french word.
Would it be something we say in english everyday too?

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:26 pm

Mr. Collette, I was going to answer your message in other words which I do now, but I'm not here to discuss but to learn, so I will explain my idea about what I said in this forum, again, if you do not bother.

When I told that the chemycal acids are harmful to the alchemical sustances, is an argument based on logic and in the words of the ancient alchemists. Don`t get me wrong; I do not want to contradict your words or your work. Please, I ask you to follow my reasoning: Apart from the fact that the chemical acids are too strong to the subtil and tender spirit contained in the matter is released alive, ¿what difference would such a method with the chemical vulgar to have? I´m not trying to say you are a puffer, don´t get me wrong, again, please. Without the cooperation of the spirit there is no alchemy, I believe. Why do you think that all true adepts begin their texts in praise of god? ¿Is not to highlight the importance of the spirit on the matter?

The spirit gives life, not removed, as do the modern acids.

Then, I ask to you; without the spirit and the soport of nature, ¿alchemy would really remain alchemy?

Make an effort for giving me an honest and educated answer, please. Surprise me, although it is by this time.

humbly, Pierre.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:37 pm

Hi Solomon Levi,

I do not know, Solomon; out of context, the words that you point out, might be a bit confusing, since the author it could be talking about the dew, the snow or the rain, for example.

Although I share the idea that the author manages in these few words.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  Dizardos on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:44 pm

Snowstorms are common in winter.

Pierre, you have come a fair way and I am sure that with enough willpower no door can remain closed for long. Belief, effort and patience should give you what you desire. My hands are shackled, but there is a chance that the shackles will come off in April, although it is certainly no guarantee.

Have a nice day everyone!
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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  kerkring on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:14 pm

solomon levi wrote:In the most natural way, these truths
derive from the immediate knowledge of a certain substance that has
been described in almost identical terms by all the ancient chemists,
a substance, moreover, whose common and sacred names each of us
utters every day, especially between the fall and spring equinoxes.
...Let us add, however, before leaving this subject that the material in
question resembles only very distantly the mysterious "nostoc"."

Pierre - does this makes sense to you?
I assume the word would be a french word.
Would it be something we say in english everyday too?

According to Jean Dubuis from PON, the secret fire is carried to earth from the sun thru the atmosphere and is concentrated in the dew and in fresh snow which hasn't been contaminated, so it could be that.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  100%TRUTH on Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:25 am

I did not come here with any hatred in my heart, so I don't know why some of these members insist on accusing me of hating anyone. I came here to give.

And why do these people hate me? I can only think jealousy is the cause, because I plainly give you the way to make the stone that is literally easier than baking a cake, heck even easier than making a sandwich, and I provide STEP BY STEP instructions with hundreds of photographs, and they want to call me the puffer? Even if they honestly lack so much common sense they truly believe I would be handing out a step by step process so easy anyone could do it, but it's fake, and so they really believe I'm a puffer, why hate me for it?

I don't hate Pierre, and he's a total puffer. I don't even dislike Pierre. I actually like him a little, even though he's another one of those guys who doesn't even show his face or give his real name, or provide any photos, and won't explain a step by step format for others to follow and replicate his results.

He's state all his opinions and beliefs as facts, and only responds to people who praise his name and pretend to bow down to his great and infinite wisdom. It's quite a load of nonsense, and it very much surprises me how kindly he's treated here, especially since such mean spirit scum litter this forum with their presence, driving away any true alchemists.

And yes, I've made the stone via the Volpierre path, and I've perfect the path to make it faster. Photos from step one to the very end glowing stone will be in the 1st edition of my book, and of course every other process will also be in there, shown from beginning to end. So I have laugh when I see someone claiming acids can't be used in alchemy. YES indeed they can. All that is important is that dew be added to these acids, and when multiplication is done, it's imperative the calx be allowed to absorb dew from the air during the stage of deliquescence.

See how much give and share? lol

Anyway, this message will probably be deleted so I may as well stop typing here. I'm just glad to one again see that even if you throw perils before swine, they swine are too foolish to know what treasure even looks like.


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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  phliosehea on Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:31 am

NDC: Anyway, this message will probably be deleted so I may as well stop typing here. I'm just glad to one again see that even if you throw perils before swine, they swine are too foolish to know what treasure even looks like.

Yes...you couldn't have said it better- Thank you for throwing this peril our way.

per·il (prl)
n.
1.
a. Imminent danger.
b. Exposure to the risk of harm or loss.
2. Something that endangers or involves risk.
tr.v. per·iled also per·illed, per·il·ing also per·il·ling, per·ils also per·ils
To expose to danger or the chance of injury; imperil.


Last edited by phliosehea on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:01 am

Nick Collette wrote:

And why do these people hate me?

Do not you think that the way you treat people, is the answer to how people treat yourself?

I don't hate Pierre, and he's a total puffer. I don't even dislike Pierre. I actually like him a little, even though he's another one of those guys who doesn't even show his face or give his real name, or provide any photos, and won't explain a step by step format for others to follow and replicate his results.

He's state all his opinions and beliefs as facts, and only responds to people who praise his name and pretend to bow down to his great and infinite wisdom. It's quite a load of nonsense, and it very much surprises me how kindly he's treated here, especially since such mean spirit scum litter this forum with their presence, driving away any true alchemists.


.. Wow..., how many things you say here .. , my friend, considering that a friend of yours gave me come to your forum because he felt that I was a real alchemist and I knew things that all you do not. I imagine that person contact me privately with your consent. Do I need to show you the mail in the forum for you accept it as truth?

But it`s all right, bro... "tables turning and now it`s my turn to cry..."

I apologize sincerely if someone feels offended by that I do not answered his comment. I really do. Was never my intention. Really I ignored it to any of you in this forum?

Yes, I didn`t show photos, because that proves nothing. I may be showing anything ... ¿How could you rely on a blurry image from the distance? I apologize to all those who do this; but there should be a factor for confidence that this is positive. The same thing for the tapes. That`s what I think...

And finally ... ... oh yes, I am a real evil and a dark person and I come up here to confuse the soul of the all innocent and confident alchemists and take them through the wrong way. ¿See...? , you did it again! Do not underestimate people. Think well before you accuse so many people that way. We are all conscious people, not empty heads ... All we feel, think and act in different ways; but that`s all right. ¿Is not it so?

¡C`mon, man, please; let us be serious!

But that`s your problem, nick; not mine. Do what you want to do, but you should respect the people and you shall be respected.. That`s the first law.

So be happy with your stone and I'll be with my ignorance.

Up ever.
Pierre.

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Re: The Secret Fire of the Philosophers

Post  pierre on Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:12 am

kerkring wrote:
solomon levi wrote:In the most natural way, these truths
derive from the immediate knowledge of a certain substance that has
been described in almost identical terms by all the ancient chemists,
a substance, moreover, whose common and sacred names each of us
utters every day, especially between the fall and spring equinoxes.
...Let us add, however, before leaving this subject that the material in
question resembles only very distantly the mysterious "nostoc"."

Pierre - does this makes sense to you?
I assume the word would be a french word.
Would it be something we say in english everyday too?

According to Jean Dubuis from PON, the secret fire is carried to earth from the sun thru the atmosphere and is concentrated in the dew and in fresh snow which hasn't been contaminated, so it could be that.


Yes, I share this view of the secret fire and the dew as his vehicle.

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