Homunculus or homunculi

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Homunculus or homunculi

Post  The.Hermetic.Alchemist on Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:18 pm

what do you know about homunculus? has anyone here ever created one?

The.Hermetic.Alchemist
Visita
Visita

Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2008-08-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  carabric on Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:23 pm

Well, like much of alchemy, I believe it is one metaphor that has been gravely stretched out of proportion by those who see fantasy where there is only allegory.
avatar
carabric
Terrae
Terrae

Number of posts : 80
Registration date : 2008-06-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  The.Hermetic.Alchemist on Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:37 pm

stretched yes, possible i believe yes, clones are possible why not homunculi? how about golems? I had a dream once that I made a golem, i used a peace of paper with some alchemical symbols on it, opened the golems mouth, and put it on its tongue, the golem came alive and decimated the city, I tried to stop it but then the dream ended.

The.Hermetic.Alchemist
Visita
Visita

Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2008-08-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  BeautifulEvil on Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:13 am

There are indeed different ways to create, 'revive', or evolve certain plant and animal life forms through alchemical processes. However I doubt this has ever been carried out with human life. Ethical reasons anybody?

Most alchemists find the work in the animal kingdom to be too taboo, and thus they tend to skip it. However the animal kingdom is very interesting, and one can create many alchemical products from the animal realm. Some of these are quite powerful.

_________________

Garden of the world near the new city, In the path of the hollow mountains:
It will be seized and plunged into the Tub, Forced to drink waters poisoned by sulfur.
avatar
BeautifulEvil
Occultum
Occultum

Number of posts : 754
Age : 30
Registration date : 2007-10-10

View user profile http://www.englishgematria.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  Salazius on Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:51 am

Yes, it is possible to create such entities.
There are example in Donald Tyson Book "Familiar Spirits". Also in Franz Bardon first book.

Regards,
Salazius.
avatar
Salazius
Interiora
Interiora

Number of posts : 61
Age : 33
Registration date : 2008-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  The.Hermetic.Alchemist on Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:01 pm

I heard that a homunculi is made by a failed human transmutation, as in you try to revive a person, but you did not attach a persons soul to the body. it is a soulless entity. now talking about the animal kingdom, in alchemy terms one such animal created by alchemy would be a griffin. half eagle half lion. the question is, is this possible, and how would it be possible. what would need to be done to create such a thing.

The.Hermetic.Alchemist
Visita
Visita

Number of posts : 23
Registration date : 2008-08-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  carabric on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:57 pm

Please start sourcing some amount of reference to your theories Hermetic Alchemist, it's fine if you believe what you believe, but grandiose ideas should be backed by something more substantial. A griffin by historic account is not a flesh and blood creature, more often then not it represents what is called the "two thing" or Rebis. It is an allegory to represent that the volatile (wings/eagle)- which at times can mean the airy, fiery, and watery nature of the substance is commingled with the fixed(feet/lion)- which at times can be the earthy or watery natures. Even this can be seen as a matter of opinion, but the difference is that I can source more from the historic record to back my claim to substantiate it. Otherwise we can all make erroneous claims like the earth is flat, we're all descended from cheese graters, or reincarnated from Merlin. I don't agree with everyone on this board and they don't agree with me, but what many here do- is provide substance to their ideas and theories, and this is something I find very admirable.
avatar
carabric
Terrae
Terrae

Number of posts : 80
Registration date : 2008-06-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  BeautifulEvil on Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:00 pm

I heard that a homunculi is made by a failed human transmutation, as in you try to revive a person, but you did not attach a persons soul to the body. it is a soulless entity.
This is almost totally another fabrication of FMA. When we speak of transmutations, we are using it in the way it was meant to be used: a change from one element to another.

now talking about the animal kingdom, in alchemy terms one such animal created by alchemy would be a griffin. half eagle half lion. the question is, is this possible, and how would it be possible. what would need to be done to create such a thing.
This is the realm of science, and generally alchemy doesn't deal with such things. Science an only accomplish this through DNA manipulation.


Please start sourcing some amount of reference to your theories Hermetic Alchemist, it's fine if you believe what you believe, but grandiose ideas should be backed by something more substantial.
Yes, this is something we should all start doing I believe. I'm even guilty of not stating source materials. Why? Well to be truthful, I read so much I tend to forget which texts something came from. Of course, I can tell you one reference to my first post in this thread. From John French "The Art of Distillation":

PARACELSUS, HIS WAY FOR THE RAISING OF A DEAD BIRD TO LIFE AND FOR THE GENERATING MANY SERPENTS OF ONE BOTH WHICH ARE PERFORMED BY PURTEFACTION

A bird is restored to life thus. Take a bird and put it alive into a gourd glass and seal it hermetically. Burn it to ashes in the third degree of fire. Then putrefy it in horse dung into a mucilaginous phlegm. So, by a continued digestion that phlegm must be brought to a further maturity (being taken out and put into an oval vessel of a just bigness to hold it) by an exact digestion, and will become a renewed bird which, says Paracelsus, is one of the greatest wonders of nature, and shows the great virtue of putrefaction.
Cut a serpent into small pieces, which put into a gourd glass and hermetically seal. Then putrefy them in horse dung, and the whole serpent will become living again in the glass either in the form of worms or spawn of fishes. Now, if these worms be in a fitting manner brought out of putrefaction and nourished, many hundred serpents will be bred out of one serpent, whereof every one will be as big as the first. And as it is said of the serpent, so also many other living creatures may be raised and restored again.

I've also read other such processes before, but I cannot remember where I have read them from. However the key to all this involves putrefication.

_________________

Garden of the world near the new city, In the path of the hollow mountains:
It will be seized and plunged into the Tub, Forced to drink waters poisoned by sulfur.
avatar
BeautifulEvil
Occultum
Occultum

Number of posts : 754
Age : 30
Registration date : 2007-10-10

View user profile http://www.englishgematria.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  kerkring on Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:07 am

The.Hermetic.Alchemist wrote:what do you know about homunculus? has anyone here ever created one?

Joseph Lisiewski, a Ph.D in physics and a noted scientist, was a student of Frater Albertus and Israel Regardie. At the end of his studies with Frater Albertus he did some of the water works mentioned in the Golden Chain of Homer and after several tries was able to create primitive crustaceans. He wrote a paper about it which you can read online:

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~panopus/essentia/essentiaiii2.htm

After this he started work on the homunculus:

"According to legend, this creature appears as a miniature human being. That is, it is made from the Salt, i.e.,
possesses a physical body, which is infused with the Mercury, or Life itself. But it does not possess a
Soul, or 'consciousness' in alchemical terms. It is up to the alchemist to work with such a creature,
and give it a purpose to fulfill. The Salt for this Grand Experiment is the Gur, or Pre-Academic Earth.
The 'Mother Earth' in this context is the Body. The Mercury or Life must come from the "Father."
That is, from the alchemist himself. For in this particular realm of alchemy, only a male alchemist can
generate the Homunculus, as his seed must impregnate the Mother Earth. After the impregnation
occurs—as with a human child—the cycle of development and growth begins. The rest is left up to
the reader to fathom—or to "reproduce."

His latest book, Israel Regardie and the Philosophers Stone, was supposed to include his lab notes on his experiments with the homunculus but the publisher, New Falcon, is in trouble it seems, so the book hasn't been published yet.

kerkring
Interiora
Interiora

Number of posts : 47
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  BeautifulEvil on Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:50 am

That's a very interesting post kerkring. I've not heard of either of these experiments.

I don't doubt the first experiment you mentioned, the crustaceans, is true. It seems somewhat likely actually. The second experiment seems rather odd though, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm sure I understand what you mean by the substances used, but whether or not it creates a "human" or "monster" is my guess. Confused

_________________

Garden of the world near the new city, In the path of the hollow mountains:
It will be seized and plunged into the Tub, Forced to drink waters poisoned by sulfur.
avatar
BeautifulEvil
Occultum
Occultum

Number of posts : 754
Age : 30
Registration date : 2007-10-10

View user profile http://www.englishgematria.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  kerkring on Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:48 am

BeautifulEvil wrote:That's a very interesting post kerkring. I've not heard of either of these experiments.

I don't doubt the first experiment you mentioned, the crustaceans, is true. It seems somewhat likely actually. The second experiment seems rather odd though, and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'm sure I understand what you mean by the substances used, but whether or not it creates a "human" or "monster" is my guess. Confused

I don't know what the exact substances are, the quote is from something Lisiewski wrote somewhere. Do you know of other alchemists who made primitive creatures such as crustaceans? I only knew about Lisiewski.

kerkring
Interiora
Interiora

Number of posts : 47
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Homonuculus, and other types of Palingenesis

Post  Field on Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:49 am

This is an interesting topic that I would also like to speak about and share what I know, and also ask you all what qualifies as a homonculus.

Using Alchemy I have been able to create simple life-forms, even algae, but not Humans. However, using a slightly different process I have been able to conjure up certain entities, although I wouldn't say it is creating them because as soon as they are conjured they have a history, place of origin, and all of that kind of stuff. But basically I think it is possible to have something like a Genie. Would this count as a homonuculus?

Field

Field
Visita
Visita

Number of posts : 17
Registration date : 2008-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  kerkring on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:24 am

Field wrote:This is an interesting topic that I would also like to speak about and share what I know, and also ask you all what qualifies as a homonculus.

Using Alchemy I have been able to create simple life-forms, even algae, but not Humans. However, using a slightly different process I have been able to conjure up certain entities, although I wouldn't say it is creating them because as soon as they are conjured they have a history, place of origin, and all of that kind of stuff. But basically I think it is possible to have something like a Genie. Would this count as a homonuculus?

Field

I'm not sure what it is but in spiritualism deceased people and even animals can manifest with solid breathing bodies, this is usually done with ectoplasm which is produced with substances from the medium and sitters but also with ingredients from the spirit chemists. In the Scole experiment another type of energy was used though.

See for example:
http://www.leslieflint.com/
http://www.silvercordcircle.com/Silvercord/Home.html

So it might be something like that, something in between a real being and a spirit. Or could you tell us more about these enitities? Do they look solid and can be touched?

kerkring
Interiora
Interiora

Number of posts : 47
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Homunculus or homunculi

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum