Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:22 pm

Vampires do not need blood, they need the prana contained in blood.
The primordial vampires are the children of Aset
Perhaps the mods should have kept my post concerning the Asetian Bible.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  BeautifulEvil on Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:02 pm

Vampires do not need blood, they need the prana contained in blood.
The primordial vampires are the children of Aset
Perhaps the mods should have kept my post concerning the Asetian Bible.

I have unlocked the thread, and please do keep in mind I didn't lock it - deviadah did. So really, you shouldn't say "mods" or really mod at all, since deviadah is the administrator, and I'm the only moderator.

Now let me ask you a question. Why do they need the prana from blood, and why can't they obtain it from other means? It's a pretty basic question, but I want to see how you'll answer.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:18 pm

I apologize, my mistake.
Why do they need the prana from blood, and why can't they obtain it from other means?
The simplest answer is that their Chakra / Shen centers have been damaged and they no longer retain the prana like normal humans do. There are many other ways to obtain this energy. But in the end it is the life-force that is needed to be replenished.

Thank you for unlocking my thread,
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  BeautifulEvil on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:35 pm

I apologize, my mistake.
No problem really. I try to be as fair, thoughtful, and understanding as possible.

The simplest answer is that their Chakra / Shen centers have been damaged and they no longer retain the prana like normal humans do. There are many other ways to obtain this energy. But in the end it is the life-force that is needed to be replenished.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I thought you'd answer. Do you believe this life-force is a material substance, or immaterial? Most people will say it's immaterial, but I know a few people who would argue and say it's an actual physical substance.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks BeautifulEvil,
I am going to go with not material, only because it has never been measured or recorded in any way . . . yet!
Though I am not certain really. If we don't have instruments that can measure something as prana that doesn't mean it is not physical.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:37 pm

I believe the symbol of the vampire would be most similar to ferocious beasts in alchemy. The vampire has sometimes been described as beasts, such as bats or wolves and evil sorcerers in Native Indian tales were sometimes werewolves, or changed into other ferocious animals. Vampires have not really been mentioned in alchemy, so I'm trying to find an analogy here.

Neither have I found C.G. Jung talk about vampires but here's an interesting subject where he speaks about the alchemical symbol of ferocious beasts:

When he no longer knows by what his soul is sustained, the potential of the unconscious is increased and takes the lead. Desirousness overpowers him, and illusory goals set up in the place of the eternal images excite his greed. The beast of prey seizes hold of him and soon makes him forget that he is a human being. His animal affects hamper any reflection that might stand in the way of his infantile existence and intoxicating him with the lust for booty and blood.

But when he loses his own values he becomes a hungry robber; the wolf, lion and other ravening beasts which for the alchemists symbolized the appetites that break lose when the black waters of chaos - i.e. the unconsciousness - have swallowed up the king.

From C.G. Jung's Rex and Regina, Mysterium coniunctionis

So, the beast (or, vampire) is encountered in the Nigredo phase and desires the vital spirit.

My thoughts: Vampires also symbolizes the "Guardian on the Threshold" (Shadow) which stands in the way of an apprentice of reaching the next stage of rebirth, or Albedo. A nigromancer (practitioner who "divines from nigredo") would not transmute the "matter damnata" but would instead form a "pact" (sometimes with "blood") with the Guardian Shadow. There are basically two types of pacts: gain spiritual power in exchange for vital energy ("blood"); this is the vampiric path.. or gain power in the exchange for mental oppression... this would be similar to gaining money (a synthetic symbol of "vital energy") in exchange for "selling out"; this would be the "devil path". The two basic demonic pacts.. either with vampiric Lucifer (Lilith) or with devilish Ahriman; the two basic opposite demon "princes" in Anthrosophy by occultist Rudolf Steiner. In terms of chakra imbalance, the Luciferic force takes control (parasitically feeds) on the lower chakras, while the Ahrimanic force feeds on the higher chakras. The "boon" each demon gives is Luciferic: false-sense of immortality (the sensation from the demon residing in the lower vital-spirit chakras) and spiritual power (development focused on the higher centres). Ahrimanic: false-sense of omnipotent intelligence (the sensation from the demon residing in the higher mental-spirit chakras) and vital health (development forced to the lower centres). In essence, the Luciferic / Vampiric person will be a sickly individual with propensity for learning and mental creativity, while the Ahrimanic / Devilish person will be a close-minded (cannot learn new ideas) and physically developed person. Paradoxically the vampiric person will believe in its own immortality but the devilish person will believe in its own high intelligence; while both are delusional since the vampiric one will lack health (active low chakras) and the devilish one will lack open mind (open high-chakras). To compensate for their conditions they will "drain from others"; the vampiric will drain vital power or try to get someone else to do physical work for them but the devilish will drain their mental-power from a large paradigm (orthodox or mainstream.. so it appears mentally "more appealing", since it is larger and has greater number of people putting mental-spirit work into it), or "sell out" to someone else's ideas. Hence, the vampiric ends up with the sense of immortality since he senses the the great vital forces in health around him (but they don't originate within himself) that he sucks all around his "sense of vitality" and the devilish ends up with the sense of omnipotence since he senses the great mental forces in large orthodox paradigms that he sucks his "sense of intelligence" from. But both are imbalanced and not real transmutations. While Nigredo is realizing the limitations (the saturnian circumference, the dead/necro or black/nigro), I would think Albedo would be the phase of chakra healing/reactivation and Rubedo would be a prize born from mutual working of the Higher and the Lower. Alchemy can't be complete without all three phases and "vampirism" is simply being stuck in a half of one phase (the first, Nigredo); it's the shadow-side of alchemy that can sense other higher phases of alchemy through reflection but on-its own it cannot lead to the Great Work of such as alchemist Nicholas Flamel but only perpetual degeneration (as the nature of blackening is to putrefy, mind to dementia or body to death) such as alchemist Gilles de Rais.. who went from seeking alchemy into becoming a demon-worshipper and vampiric pedophiliac


Vampirism [note: meaning here necrophilia] satisfies him for months. He polutes dead children, appeasing the fever of his desires in the blood smeared chill of the tomb. He even goes so far-one day when his supply of children is exhausted-as to disembowel a pregnant woman and sport with the foetus. After these excesses he falls into horrible states of coma, similar to those heavy lethargies which overpowered Sergeant Bertrand after his violations of the grave. But if that leaden sleep is one of the known 'phases of ordinary vampirism, if Gilles de Rais was merely a sexual pervert, we must admit that he distinguished himself from the most delirious sadists, the most exquisite virtuosi in pain and murder, by a detail which seems extrabuman, it is so horrible.

from English translation of La Bas by Joris-Karl Huysman

Obviously, Gilles de Ray was snatched completely by the first Nigredo state and turned into a pedophilic coward (while formerly being believed to be a pious hero), that paradoxically feared death more than anything, while trying to gain alchemical transmutation from summoning demons and with human sacrifice and his personal homosexual pleasure through worst degree of sadism on children. Other Alchemists that reached the phase of Albedo obviously did not fall into such trap while going through the Nigredo-phase and did not submit completely to the demonic temptations; they watched into the abyss and experienced it but didn't fall prey to it or become it.

I must note however that there are other types of "daimons" than I mention here. In essence daimon simply means "spirit", like in the original Greek. The daimons mentioned above mean de - mon in the sense of making "unwhole" or "unhealthy", in the "traditional sense" (today's sense). However, there are other types of daimons that guide without oppression, these are "spiritual guides" and are more related with the Albedo than Nigredo; like the daimon of Socrates.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:36 pm

spectre wrote:I believe the symbol of the vampire would be most similar to ferocious beasts in alchemy. The vampire has sometimes been described as beasts, such as bats or wolves and evil sorcerers in Native Indian tales were sometimes werewolves, or changed into other ferocious animals. Vampires have not really been mentioned in alchemy, so I'm trying to find an analogy here.
Shape-Shifting as it were, cannot really happen on the Earthly plane and only happens on the other higher planes of Existence.

Neither have I found C.G. Jung talk about vampires but here's an interesting subject where he speaks about the alchemical symbol of ferocious beasts:
Jung's take on the vampire is usually directed towards Narcissistic Personality Disorder
When he no longer knows by what his soul is sustained, the potential of the unconscious is increased and takes the lead. Desirousness overpowers him, and illusory goals set up in the place of the eternal images excite his greed. The beast of prey seizes hold of him and soon makes him forget that he is a human being. His animal affects hamper any reflection that might stand in the way of his infantile existence and intoxicating him with the lust for booty and blood.
But when he loses his own values he becomes a hungry robber; the wolf, lion and other ravening beasts which for the alchemists symbolized the appetites that break lose when the black waters of chaos - i.e. the unconsciousness - have swallowed up the king.

From C.G. Jung's Rex and Regina, Mysterium coniunctionis

So, the beast (or, vampire) is encountered in the Nigredo phase and desires the vital spirit.

My thoughts: Vampires also symbolizes the "Guardian on the Threshold" (Shadow) which stands in the way of an apprentice of reaching the next stage of rebirth, or Albedo. A nigromancer (practitioner who "divines from nigredo") would not transmute the "matter damnata" but would instead form a "pact" (sometimes with "blood") with the Guardian Shadow. There are basically two types of pacts: gain spiritual power in exchange for vital energy ("blood"); this is the vampiric path.. or gain power in the exchange for mental oppression... this would be similar to gaining money (a synthetic symbol of "vital energy") in exchange for "selling out"; this would be the "devil path". The two basic demonic pacts.. either with vampiric Lucifer (Lilith) or with devilish Ahriman; the two basic opposite demon "princes" in Anthrosophy by occultist Rudolf Steiner. In terms of chakra imbalance, the Luciferic force takes control (parasitically feeds) on the lower chakras, while the Ahrimanic force feeds on the higher chakras. The "boon" each demon gives is Luciferic: false-sense of immortality (the sensation from the demon residing in the lower vital-spirit chakras) and spiritual power (development focused on the higher centres). Ahrimanic: false-sense of omnipotent intelligence (the sensation from the demon residing in the higher mental-spirit chakras) and vital health (development forced to the lower centres). In essence, the Luciferic / Vampiric person will be a sickly individual with propensity for learning and mental creativity, while the Ahrimanic / Devilish person will be a close-minded (cannot learn new ideas) and physically developed person. Paradoxically the vampiric person will believe in its own immortality but the devilish person will believe in its own high intelligence; while both are delusional since the vampiric one will lack health (active low chakras) and the devilish one will lack open mind (open high-chakras). To compensate for their conditions they will "drain from others"; the vampiric will drain vital power or try to get someone else to do physical work for them but the devilish will drain their mental-power from a large paradigm (orthodox or mainstream.. so it appears mentally "more appealing", since it is larger and has greater number of people putting mental-spirit work into it), or "sell out" to someone else's ideas. Hence, the vampiric ends up with the sense of immortality since he senses the the great vital forces in health around him (but they don't originate within himself) that he sucks all around his "sense of vitality" and the devilish ends up with the sense of omnipotence since he senses the great mental forces in large orthodox paradigms that he sucks his "sense of intelligence" from. But both are imbalanced and not real transmutations. While Nigredo is realizing the limitations (the saturnian circumference, the dead/necro or black/nigro), I would think Albedo would be the phase of chakra healing/reactivation and Rubedo would be a prize born from mutual working of the Higher and the Lower. Alchemy can't be complete without all three phases and "vampirism" is simply being stuck in a half of one phase (the first, Nigredo); it's the shadow-side of alchemy that can sense other higher phases of alchemy through reflection but on-its own it cannot lead to the Great Work of such as alchemist Nicholas Flamel but only perpetual degeneration (as the nature of blackening is to putrefy, mind to dementia or body to death) such as alchemist Gilles de Rais.. who went from seeking alchemy into becoming a demon-worshipper and vampiric pedophiliac


Vampirism [note: meaning here necrophilia] satisfies him for months. He polutes dead children, appeasing the fever of his desires in the blood smeared chill of the tomb. He even goes so far-one day when his supply of children is exhausted-as to disembowel a pregnant woman and sport with the foetus. After these excesses he falls into horrible states of coma, similar to those heavy lethargies which overpowered Sergeant Bertrand after his violations of the grave. But if that leaden sleep is one of the known 'phases of ordinary vampirism, if Gilles de Rais was merely a sexual pervert, we must admit that he distinguished himself from the most delirious sadists, the most exquisite virtuosi in pain and murder, by a detail which seems extrabuman, it is so horrible.

from English translation of La Bas by Joris-Karl Huysman

Obviously, Gilles de Ray was snatched completely by the first Nigredo state and turned into a pedophilic coward (while formerly being believed to be a pious hero), that paradoxically feared death more than anything, while trying to gain alchemical transmutation from summoning demons and with human sacrifice and his personal homosexual pleasure through worst degree of sadism on children. Other Alchemists that reached the phase of Albedo obviously did not fall into such trap while going through the Nigredo-phase and did not submit completely to the demonic temptations; they watched into the abyss and experienced it but didn't fall prey to it or become it.

I must note however that there are other types of "daimons" than I mention here. In essence daimon simply means "spirit", like in the original Greek. The daimons mentioned above mean de - mon in the sense of making "unwhole" or "unhealthy", in the "traditional sense" (today's sense). However, there are other types of daimons that guide without oppression, these are "spiritual guides" and are more related with the Albedo than Nigredo; like the daimon of Socrates.


Spectre: this is perhaps one of the finest discourse on vampirism I have ever read. I have recently become a fan of Rudolph Steiner and Theosophy, is much of your theories presented here from Steiner? If so, please direct me towards the books containing this vampiric information. Otherwise, if you would direct me to the sources pertinent to your conclusions I would be greatly appreciative.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:47 pm

taceyoto wrote:Well acording to the text I read, the earliest "symtpoms'' of vampirism were exhibited in Ancient Egypt when the Ba and the Ka escaped the body, one looked like a bird andthe other like the human soul, the human soul would look for offerenings to survive ( why they buried food with thier dead) and with no offerings they would prey on human energy. the first "vampire" was the first mummy ever, said to have been mummified by Anubis himself.
Greetings taceyoto, could reference the text that you were reading with this information please?

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:56 pm

spectre wrote:
(Kemetic = Egyptian, Ka = Essence or Soul, Aset = Isis)
Ka is the the essense / spirit Ba is much closer to the Western idea of soul.
I don't think there's any blood involved.
It does involve blood as it contains the prana that is needed by them.
from the Asetian Bible:
"Blood is the most widespread energetically charged substance, closely followed by semen and vaginal fluids . . . . . The organs that control and guide the energy inside the subtle body - called by Asetians as Shen Centers (Chakras) - are all connected by energy filaments, called meridians. . . . The meridians work in a similar way to the physical blood vessels, and are to some extent aligned with them . . . . Blood is not a metaphor for vital energy . . . a misconception in the new-age vampire communities . . . but a vessel for life force itself . . . "
As for the remaining commentary on Asetianism, I am an Asetianist and though I am in no coming to the Aset Ka's defense I do urge you to possibly read the Asetian Bible which goes further into detail than anything posted on the website will.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:18 pm

I've read ideas of Rudolf Steiner but he doesn't mention vampirism as far as I know. The reason I made the comparison with his description of Lucifer and vampirism is that Lucifer causes disturbances like obsessions, an overwhelming feeling of questions, insomnia and feeling like being unable to breath. He considered the Egyptian Sphinx to be a symbol of Lucifer and he considered Lucifer to have been an especially dominant force around the times of Egypt and Greece. In mythology the Sphinx causes feeling of strangulation and it asks riddles.

The other demon that opposes Lucifer is Ahriman. He likened his symbol to the traditional image of demons, the goat-like horned and hoofed creatures. Being the opposite of Lucifer, it causes disturbances of NOT asking any questions and accepting unquestionably and it causes cold and calculating mental disposition that works like a machine or computer. According to Steiner Ahriman is supposed to be the dominant force today that leads reductionist technocratic academia. According to Steiner, the alchemist in the story of Faust was really following Ahriman, aka Mephistopheles. The alchemist wanted to take a short-cut by making a demonic pact to grant his wishes but by mindlessly following every advice of Ahriman/Mephisto he was eventually deceived and ruined.

The third force is that of Krishna (Christ). That force transcends Lucifer and Ahriman and makes life sustainable. It's the only force of the three that's not eventually somehow evil but good. His ideas can be compared to the three phases of alchemy, or the three qualities in astrology, where Lucifer would stand for Blackening or Mutable, Ahriman for Whitening or Fixed and Krishna for Reddening or Cardinal.


I haven't read much of Rudolf Steiner but I own a biography of him (that I've yet to read) and a book called "Colour". Really, it's a bit hard to study Steiner since most of his works haven't been translated from German and he wrote extensively on many subjects so it might also be hard to find the subjects one is most interested in.

Here's a good webpage though and some quotes that explain Lucifer (what I associate being similar to "vampirism"):

What happens when the breathing process becomes excessively vigorous and forceful? The ether-body expands, becomes too diffuse; and as this takes effect in the physical body, it tends to break up the physical body. An over-exuberant, too widely extended ether-body gives rise to an excessively vigorous breathing process and this provides the Luciferic forces with opportunity to work.

The Luciferic forces, then, can make their way into the human being when the ether-body has expanded beyond the normal. One can also say that the Luciferic forces tend to express themselves in an ether-body that has expanded beyond the limits of the human form, that is to say, in an ether-body requiring more space than is provided within the boundaries of the human skin.

And so there is a definite connection between the Sphinx and the breathing process. But we also know that the breathing process is connected in a very special way with the blood. Therefore the Luciferic forces also operate in the blood, permeating and surging through it. By way of the breathing, the Luciferic forces can everywhere make their way into the blood of the human being and when excessive energy is promoted in the blood, the Luciferic nature the Sphinx becomes very strong.

And here's a quote about Ahriman that I called "devilish" (because Steiner likened it's symbol to be Satyr-like). It craves blood of humans since it lacks it according to Steiner. So you can take your own picks of what of Steiner's demons you find most similar to vampires. I personally find Lucifer to share more of the qualities and Ahriman to be more like a demon (that wants blood-pacts). Perhaps the answer is that both are parasitic in their own special, exaclty opposite ways. So perhaps Ahriman demands B kind of energy and gives A kind of energy, while Lucifer drains A and gives B.

Ahriman is deprived of the possibility of penetrating into the blood because he cannot come near the warmth of the blood. If he wants to establish a connection with a human being, he will therefore crave for a drop of blood, because access to the blood is so difficult for him. An abyss lies between Mephistopheles and the blood. When he draws near to man as a living being, when he wants to make a connection with man, he realizes that the essentially human power lives in the blood. He must therefore endeavor to get hold of the blood.

That Faust's pact with Mephistopheles is signed with blood is a proof of the wisdom contained in the legend. Faust must bind himself to Mephistopheles by way of the blood, because Mephistopheles has no direct access to the blood and craves for it. Just as the Greek confronted the Sphinx whose field of operation is the breathing system, so the man of the Fifth Post-Atlantean epoch confronts Mephistopheles who operates in the nerve-process, who is cold and scornful because he is bloodless, because he lacks the warmth that belongs to the blood. He is the scoffer, the cold, scornful companion of man.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/Places/Dornach/19141120p01.html
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:43 pm

As for the remaining commentary on Asetianism, I am an Asetianist and though I am in no coming to the Aset Ka's defense I do urge you to possibly read the Asetian Bible which goes further into detail than anything posted on the website will.

Alright but don't you find it stupid that the Asetians will make so bold statements in their creeds? It's similar to a fundamental believers that claim everyone is lost because they don't belong to their sect. Reading the Asetian creeds it makes you think that everyone needs to become an Asetian to be saved in the afterlife and that is simply ignorant or deceptive to claim.

But to be fair, I'm not only against the creeds Asetians and other similar gothic groups but also many other. I've looked into a lot of religions from satanism to christianity and always found something I consider erroneous claims; in the case of satanism for an example there's so much narrow-mindedness and claims of omniscience of how Nature works, yet it misunderstands almost everything of Nature. In the case of Christianity there's so much focus on the interpretations out of the bible and absolutely no serious critical outlook or attempt to explain why exactly texts such as from the Old Testament would be "so important to God". In my opinion, and I admit it's pretty grim, I think satanists are trying to cover their own ignorance and make others believe in the authority of their ego, while Christians are trying to cover the ignorance of the Church history and make others believe in the authority of the Church. I like alchemy since it's a much more sincere quest for truth and both leaves satanist opinions of Nature and Christian opinions of God in the dust.

And one more thing about vampires.. I personally find the megabats (fruit bats or flying-foxes) to be much cooler than the microbats (few of which suck blood). They're much larger, more intelligent, and don't suck blood but eat fruits but still are nocturnal and sinister to behold.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:52 pm

Thank you very much for the info, wonderful.
My view of Lucifer is a bit different, Lucifer is a principle of the Universe and stands for gnosis. Lux Lucis / Lucifer is the truth and the way to the hidden knowledge that will take you further than God when you physically die and onto become a God/Creator instead of One with God, remaining a creation.

As far as the Asetian commentary: the truth will always be perceived as bold to those that are skeptical, this is normal.
True Gnosis is contained and taught from the Mystery schools that existed in ancient Egypt, the same schools that Yeshua of Nazareth were taught how to become a God/Creator.

Bats? Vampirism? LOL


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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:00 pm

Ok, my own view on vampirism is that it is a symbol of morbid fascination and of being stuck in a nigredo-phase limbo, being unable to let go of some addiction and thus being neither dead or alive; undead. Or acting like a ravenous beast and forgetting one's soul in the nigredo phase.

My view on Lucifer is that it's an archetype that closely represents the planet Venus. It causes duality, change, intrigue and internal questioning, it can represent a romantic interest that "turns life around" or some other hypnotic influence that almost makes it hard to speak or breathe and changes oneself. It can also represent sly or crafty tricksters or seductresses, mythological figures such as Loki, Judas, Jezebel or Lilith, that incite movement/change that can result in nightmares.. they cause problems (questions) or "movement in the story" but they don't necessarily provide any solutions (answers) - those, other archetypes need to provide. Positively it represents the Anima for males and Animus for females.. the archetype of the soul of the "other sex", that can cause internal conflict/questions, intrigue, day-dreams and quest for pleasure.


True Gnosis is contained and taught from the Mystery schools that existed in ancient Egypt, the same schools that Yeshua of Nazareth were taught how to become a God/Creator.

By the way, Jesus certainly was no Asetian, he was an Essene (180 from being a psi-vampire) and yet according to the myth he certainly developed his Markaba/Light Body or whatever you want to call it, so that disproves the creeds of the Asetians (since they claim they're the only ones able to do such Soul-work feats). What I'd personally call Luciferean influences were through Judas as told in the Gospel of Judas, where Judas is described as having the closest relationship with Jesus from the disciples and having done what he did by Jesus' own wishes. Judas is also described there as a "star".

Not to disrespect you personally but I honestly still think they're a religious cult that have lied about some tradition that doesn't exist and made some ego-centric creed (or corrupted some scriptures to that end) to fascinate a following (like I believe most religious groups do). But I'm wondering about the references you said existed for proof about connections between Egyptian texts and vampirism in the Asetian Bible thread?
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:40 am

spectre wrote:
Ok, my own view on vampirism is that it is a symbol of morbid fascination and of being stuck in a nigredo-phase limbo, being unable to let go of some addiction and thus being neither dead or alive; undead. Or acting like a ravenous beast and forgetting one's soul in the nigredo phase.
I don't believe vampirism is symbolic, it is fact and manifest here. But could you define the term 'nigredo' I am unfamiliar with it?
My view on Lucifer is that it's an archetype that closely represents the planet Venus. It causes duality, change, intrigue and internal questioning
To me Lucifer is the personification of gnosis and altruism.
By the way, Jesus certainly was no Asetian, he was an Essene (180 from being a psi-vampire) and yet according to the myth he certainly developed his Markaba/Light Body or whatever you want to call it, so that disproves the creeds of the Asetians (since they claim they're the only ones able to do such Soul-work feats).
I never said Yeshua was an Asetian or a vampire. I don't see anywhere the Asetians claiming to be the only ones able to do 'Soul-work feats'? Please direct me to where you got your information.
Not to disrespect you personally but I honestly still think they're a religious cult that have lied about some tradition that doesn't exist and made some ego-centric creed (or corrupted some scriptures to that end) to fascinate a following (like I believe most religious groups do)
None taken, you are entitled to your opinions.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:22 pm

Nigredo means "blackening" or "mortification". It's often considered the first stage in alchemical work.

I could go on criticizing the religious group but I won't since I know you don't mean to defend them and there's little more to discuss since the whole thing crumbles down when you start digging deeper; since the veracity of the whole thing, for an example in terms of the Kemetic tradition and Egyptology, is very lacking. I haven't found a single source, or review of the Asetian Bible, that provides the Egyptian connection.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:32 pm

Thank you, I am new to the subject of al-kimiya
As for the Aset Ka, I am not sure what you are getting at. They are most certainly Kemetic, what information have you read about them that says otherwise? In any case I am an asetianist (I study Asetianism) and hold the Aset Ka in high esteem, so perhaps we should desist with the conversation concerning them being you are not a fan.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  spectre on Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:58 pm

Well, there are many issues I discern, some of them being some specifics in their metaphysical theories, but mainly their main-claim about the Egyptian tradition.

What I mean is that they mention some Egyptian connection with vampires but they don't give any references, for an example you mentioned Isis having some vampiric birth but I've seen no truth to it. You did mention you had references you were willing to give that supposedly prove connection between Egyptology and Asetianism but you didn't provide them. Do you have them? Because if you do, please link them. I've striven to give links or quotes to sources, so it's fair exchange, besides you've already offered to give them but haven't done it yet.

Neither have I seen any other Asetians actually provide any sources/references in terms of their main assertion of an Egyptian tradition. Sincerely I believe the reason is that they can't give direct references or point to specific chapters in Egyptian texts.. is simply because they can't, because there's no such connection existing.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  EtuMalku on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:11 pm

I apologize, I have mentioned that everything can be found in the Coffin texts, the Pyramid Texts and the Papyrus of Ani (the Books of the Dead). They are huge volumes and I will find some passages that relate.
What I mean is that they mention some Egyptian connection with vampires but they don't give any references, for an example you mentioned Isis having some vampiric birth but I've seen no truth to it.
Firstly, it is Aset (Isis) that gives birth to the Asetian lineage. Aset is not a vampire. Her three children are. Aset being a Goddess grants Horus and his siblings rule over Egypt. Their physical bodies are mortal but their demigod souls are immortal.
Neither have I seen any other Asetians actually provide any sources/references in terms of their main assertion of an Egyptian tradition.
The Asetians have offered an entire Book concerning themselves with direct quotes from all the Texts previously mentioned.

"May your flesh be born to life
And may your life encompass more,
Than the life of the stars as they exist"

- Pyramid Texts

"She uttered the spell with her magical power of Her mouth.
Her tongue was perfect, and it never halted at a word.
Beneficent in command and word was Aset,
The one of magical spells"

- Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Aset will embrace you in peace.
She will drive away the opponent from your path.
Place your face to the West, that you may illumine the two lands.
The dead have stood up to look at you.
Breathing the air and seeing your face.
Like the rising of the Sun disk in the horizon.
Their hearts are pleased with what you have done.
To you belong eternity and everlastingness."

- Book of the Dead

It is a complex subject and one that I am still learning about. Those were quotes I found quickly, as I find more I will post them.
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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  kerkring on Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:00 pm

In the Philosophers of Nature material, Mineral Alchemy Vol. 2, p38 and following they give a text from the Bacstrom Rosicrucian Society which describes a way to make the stone from human blood. The blood acts as a magnet that attracts the universal spirit or fire energy and concentrates it.

It uses the 'blood of the young man' as a starting material, the blood of the young man is the blood of the adept who already has become younger through his preliminary work in the vegetable and mineral kingdoms. This means that the operator made and used a series of herbal and mineral elixirs to purify and increase his or her rate of vibration. This is supposed to alter the blood of the individual too.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  BeautifulEvil on Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:29 pm

In the Philosophers of Nature material, Mineral Alchemy Vol. 2, p38 and following they give a text from the Bacstrom Rosicrucian Society which describes a way to make the stone from human blood. The blood acts as a magnet that attracts the universal spirit or fire energy and concentrates it.
I've heard of this from a few different sources. We all know the connection between blood and vampires. The symbolism seems to fit together too well: vampires, blood, eternal youth, nocturnal creatures.

It uses the 'blood of the young man' as a starting material, the blood of the young man is the blood of the adept who already has become younger through his preliminary work in the vegetable and mineral kingdoms. This means that the operator made and used a series of herbal and mineral elixirs to purify and increase his or her rate of vibration. This is supposed to alter the blood of the individual too.
This is pretty interesting. Why'd you draw the conclusion between the blood of an adept and the blood of a young man? We know the alchemists were a sneaky bunch, but this seems straight forward. I could be wrong though.

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Re: Historical Relation Between Vampires & Alchemy

Post  kerkring on Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:54 am

BeautifulEvil wrote:
This is pretty interesting. Why'd you draw the conclusion between the blood of an adept and the blood of a young man? We know the alchemists were a sneaky bunch, but this seems straight forward. I could be wrong though.

In the old text they say 'blood of the young man', the people from PON then make the comment that this means the blood of an adept or someone who has already been purified to some degree by taking vegetable and mineral alchemical products. The purification can also be done through work with the Qabala according to Dubuis.

Could be that it works with anyone's blood though.

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