Re: Ningishzidda

[m1thr0s]

I think that to really understand the Spirit/Fire fusion, you may have to know a little about classical qabbalah. There is a certain pecking order to the elements, mirrored both east and west, with spirit at apex, descending into fire as the root element of either the 4 or the 8 additional elements, depending on which path you take. So Fire is Father (Pangenetor) and Heaven predominently and we get iconography like firebirds and serpents and dragons and winged forms of all kinds etc...a rich array of emblems across the board including the Djinn and the Phoenix and Winged Globes and just all kinds of stuff...

So it it said then that Fire contains all the other elements within itself and of course we can see an easy parallel with this to stars for instance...yet even fire itself descends from Spirit so spirit always comes first.

What this means though is that we may see indications of other elements in Fire that would seem to belong to other elemental categories...such as air or earth or water etc... Moreso that we find operating in reverse.

[LadyHydralisk]

It seems weird...I mean...huh....

Spirit/Akasha lends fire wings, so what does it lend to air?

I was thinking psi. What animals would be associated with it? Unicorns?

nevermind, I will return to this later when I have studied some more.

I use the Bardonian system where

Fire and Water are the originals, and then you have Air as a communicative device that arrises from the presence of fire seeking water, and then earth as a union of those three. Akasha is treated as an underlying element that powers everything else.

I guess Unicorns would be pure spirit, alchemical air might be electricity right, so...lol pikachu...

[deviadah]

I've read somewhere that if you grind up the horn of a unicorn it is one of the main ingredients of the Elixir of Life... but this is probably just an old wives tale.

Perhaps we should consider the work of Anton Mesmer?

Mesmer suggests that the movement of the universal fluid could easily be observed in an illness. He was convinced that this fluid flowed through both animate and inanimate bodies. Most easily observed in organic nature in the properties of magnetism. Mesmer called its parrallel form in the human body animal magnetism. The temporary relief he provided periodically could become a permanent cure if reinforced properly.

The power of the magnet itself was not the source of the curative effect. Mesmer realised that the power to direct the currents, the animal magnetism, to cleanse and restore the patient was bound to the will of the physician.

Anyway not to stray too far away from the subject at hand all animals possess a form of energy that us humans lack, or keep dormant within us. I am sure if we can awake this force it would feel like wings of fire!

Just imagine if our senses were that of an animal while at the same time we have our superior intelligence; now that would be a trip!

[LadyHydralisk]

Oh yes I like animals and animal nature, they are very innocent.

Grinding the horn of a unicorn? That's dreadful. It's like Voldemort sucking on unicorn blood. Gross.

To be funny I replaced my forum's censored word list with m1thr0s for ningishzidda and ningishzidda for m1thr0s, so all instances replace each other.

It makes the forum fucking hilarious....oh god I can't stop laughing.

Don't tell m1 what the link is. (haha!)

So today I noticed DNA isn't the be all end of all of human development, alot of our features come from enviroment, and apparently even our DNA can be shaped later in life even after childhood by enviromental factors. (stress kills!)

Edit:

awww I got stripped of admin for that practical joke....what a bunch of retards I put in charge

[deviadah]

So today I noticed DNA isn't the be all end of all of human development, alot of our features come from enviroment, and apparently even our DNA can be shaped later in life even after childhood by enviromental factors. (stress kills!)

Yeah, this is my feeling too.

Perhaps suicide is an effect of too much DNA mutation? Speaking of course of those that kill themselves out of will, too much intelligence and such - not from loosing ones job or something like it.

[LadyHydralisk]

Well I don't know, it can get lonely when you have nothing but your own mind to bounce ideas off of...is that what you mean?

Some guys are really just so dumb you can run them like a computer...really, input in, output predictable...

so you have to make life a little more interesting for yourself when you're more intelligent or you just die of boredom and this could include suicide I guess...

But who knows...

[Gunderic Mollusk]

While genetic study isn't my forte, I was wondering if we had any clues for the shapes of RNA, since many sources seem to be saying it's just as important, if not moreso, than DNA for determining traits.

On the flint-head thing, an interesting note that Dev may remember from the Hrungmismal is how Thor received a piece of flint in his brow (third eye?) after smiting the giant Hrungnir. Further related is Thor and Jormundgandr's mutual annihilation, tying back to the serpent theme, if not the Orouboros. This is a bit of a divergence, and I apologize for such, but it seems to corroborate the notions of global alchemy as stated earlier.

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Well, the will to destroy oneself, as posited by Robert Bloom in The Lucife Principle, comes from a lack of purpose in th greater context, whether actual or perceived. Communal animals who have no nurturance upon birth end up self-mutilating much of the time, and sometimes just die on their own. This is in response to Dev's suicide statement.

[LadyHydralisk]

That's very true. Sometimes self-mutilation can take on surprisingly subtle and insidious avenues in humans, because we are such complex animals. Cigarettes and alcohol abuse are two obvious examples, but other things like plastic surgery, reading trashy magazines and watching soap operas are three I can think of that damage women emotionally and physically. I have an aunt in law who died from complications related to breast implants leaking and the same goes for men generally now, too - though I really don't keep up with GQ or Maxim anymore than I do Cosmopolitan....a little fashion is ok but it's not generating any good for mankind in general at an obnoxious level.

Something else to consider is the state of man at this point in time, reflecting back to a time when swords and death was an everyday reality of a turbulent enviroment such as it was in Ancient Mesopotamia, Ningishzidda has an entirely new context in light of science and nuclear physics and so forth - we're seeing Ng revisited like never before. As it is with many ancient gods - Anubis has turned from dead soul helper to character out of a horror film in popular media (which counts often more than the odd pagan instance, I think)

There's a lot that can be learned from revisiting the old gods on new terms, so one may find out more about Ningishzidda by also revisitng some of his contemporaries, such as Nergal, Bau, Erishkigal and Inanna...what are they doing today (in the human psyche drama)?

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Agh. I mean. Howard Bloom.

One thing to also consider is how a deity, regardless of name, has a modern analogue in one form or another. Dagda of Celtic myth, Wodan, and Cernunnos all jumble together into Santa Claus, for instance. The general populace has deified Marilyn Munroe, who herself was a persona akin to a posession of Norma Jean IforgotherlastnameandI'msorryforthat, who may very well be something like a modern analogue to Aphrodite that couldn't be sustained in a human form (hence Norma Jean's subsequent suicide).

[MythMath]

Marilyn Monroe
{Norma Jeane Mortenson}

promotional still from 1953
Born: June 1, 1926 Died: August 5, 1962

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Thank you very much for this, MythMath.

[deviadah]

On the flint-head thing, an interesting note that Dev may remember from the Hrungmismal is how Thor received a piece of flint in his brow (third eye?) after smiting the giant Hrungnir. Further related is Thor and Jormundgandr's mutual annihilation, tying back to the serpent theme, if not the Orouboros. This is a bit of a divergence, and I apologize for such, but it seems to corroborate the notions of global alchemy as stated earlier.

Actually I didn't know about this. I am not at all well versed in Norse Mythology... I'm more looking at the horizon than what's in my backyard... perhaps this is a mistake on my part. I have, though, some notes here and there that I need to get into this Norse stuff since there are several things that correspond to other myths and legends.

Nidhogg and Ng are on opposite sides of the mirror!

[Gunderic Mollusk]

Ah. Well, the Hrungnismal is probably one of my favorites, as it has Thor pitted against a giant most obviously his dark reflection, and has a very little known section discussing flint, which has a certain significance as you read the myth. You might also find it as the Lay of Hrungnir. Either way, the similarities in Norse myths to so many early cultures does indeed promote, at least in my mind, how much our species' spiritual history is but a series of criss-crossing lines all leading to the same source, like a knot of serpents.

[antonchanning]

Good to see Ningizzida being discussed here. I had in fact just being writing about Ningizzida for my new book, although I may have a few more avenues of research to follow up and expand my writing on him, as my main source currently was wikipedia (holds head in shame). Still, much of what I wrote holds up. I may as well quote it. Please bare in mind this is a first draft that hasn't even been proof read, so be kind. This is quite short as I only really intended it as an opening paragraph to the section on the Caduceus:

Images of a staff or wand with one or two serpents coiled about them seem to date from thousands of years ago. The earliest example currently known to us dates from between 2200 and 2025 BCE in Mesopotamia, a representation of the deity Ningizzida. It depicts two horned dragon like snakes, probably 'bashmu' dragons, the animal sacred to Ningizzida. Serpents coil about one another during copulation, and so it seems reasonable to assume that this image of Ningizzida contains both a male and a female dragon, as if to reinforce the hermaphrodite nature of the symbolism. What is more Ningizzida is described as having a wife (Ninazimua or Dazimua), and being the son of Ninazu, yet the prefix 'Nin' refers to a female entity in Sumerian. They are sometimes also depicted as a serpent with a human head. Their name means 'Lord of the Good Tree', and they were considered a deity of medicine, appeared as one of two guardians at the gates of Anu's celestial palace in Sumerian myth and was also a messenger to the goddess Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven and Earth. Ningizzida was associated with constellation of Hydra.

Now, I obviously interpret the deity as Hermaphrodite in my initial research, although from reading here I suspect the deity is almost certainly more likely male, or was masculinised at a certain point in Sumerian history whilst retaining the female appellation. Also, just to think about the origins of the word 'woman' derived from 'wyf-man', whereas the male was refered to as 'waep-man' or 'wer-man'. I'm not sure but the term for male simply meant something like 'human with weapon', whilst 'wyf-man' meant 'human with womb'. In other words terms for gender were more about what you did than what you were physically (although there may have been a strong correlation).

Could it be that Nin was a similar prefix based more on what you did? Maybe a class of males came into being in early Sumerian civilisation that were not primarily hunters or warriors? Perhaps learned medicine and such things, and thus earned the prefix Nin?

Of course, in the Caduceus like image of Ningizzida we are still presented with the idea that there are TWO serpents, and since they are in mating form it seems likely one of them is female. Perhaps it is intended to be his wife, (Ninazimua or Dazimua), and the ancients would have understood this without needing explanation, just like Catholics understand that in a picture of Mary holding a babe, the babe is Jesus without that needing to be explained.

[deviadah]

Also, just to think about the origins of the word 'woman' derived from 'wyf-man', whereas the male was refered to as 'waep-man' or 'wer-man'. I'm not sure but the term for male simply meant something like 'human with weapon', whilst 'wyf-man' meant 'human with womb'. In other words terms for gender were more about what you did than what you were physically (although there may have been a strong correlation).

Interesting... didn't know about this!

I have a soft heart for linguistics I must admit, but linguistics is also agreat deal of trouble since origins of words are different in each culture/language. Even if some words are - in their root form - similar, many are not since there is not one original language of the human race... unless of course we speak of The Lost Speech (telepathy) or some UFO language - take your pick, but I vote for the former.

I don't think the gender of Ng is that important, same with humans. In the eternal realm of gnosis gender is non-existent!

But it sure is food for thought!



Have a look at THIS by MythMath

[antonchanning]

Interesting... didn't know about this!

I have a soft heart for linguistics I must admit, but linguistics is also agreat deal of trouble since origins of words are different in each culture/language. Even if some words are - in their root form - similar, many are not since there is not one original language of the human race... unless of course we speak of The Lost Speech (telepathy) or some UFO language - take your pick, but I vote for the former.

Not sure I'd agree that the lost speech is telepathy. I'd say it is more likely the kind of communication we had before we invented words. Probably closer to glossolalia, and was mainly used to communicate emotion rather than ideas.

But yeah, I wasn't trying to say 'Nin' meant the same thing as 'wyf', just that like 'wyf' it may have meant something more to do with gender role rather than physical gender. Emphasis on 'may'. I like to speculate as much as anyone else on this forum...

I don't think the gender of Ng is that important, same with humans. In the eternal realm of gnosis gender is non-existent!

I see gender as important, or least it feels important to me. In the eternal realm of gnosis the word 'is' has no meaning, and thus it is just as meaningless to say 'is non-existent' of something in that realm as it is to say 'is real'. When working with historical entities I prefer a respectable level of accuracy where possible rather than deliberately ignoring known facts.

Have a look at THIS by MythMath

Interesting.

I am very much interested in the Hermaphroditic mysteries.

[deviadah]

I guess it depends on how we look at history, not saying you are wrong... just looking at it from a different shore!

As I said your input is interesting and I will take it into consideration for future dabblings!

Keep it up!

[antonchanning]

I guess it depends on how we look at history, not saying you are wrong... just looking at it from a different shore!

I wasn't saying I was right either, just that I think the truth (or respect for what we know is probably true) matters. Of course, some new excavation may unearth evidence that Ningizidda was originally a goddess and underwent a change of sex as Sumerian civilisation developed. Stranger things have happened.

Baphomet may have undergone a change from Female to Male to Hermaphrodite over the centuries for example...

As I said your input is interesting and I will take it into consideration for future dabblings!

Indeed, as is this forum and the ideas expressed by its members, including yourself.

[monkeyblood]

A few chapters on Ningishzidda.Well,I was hoping for a book....so a few chapters will have to do.

A good place for research is the excellent topic on Ningishzidda at occultforums.I got a lot from that.

Zecharia Sitchens book 'The Lost Realms' is also good even though some of his information is suspect.But its always like that,isnt it?
Still its a good place to start.

With the confusion over the meaning of 'nin' in a name I dont think its written in blood that its automatically female.Ninurta being an example.

And I have always believed that Ningishzidda was one of the children of Enki,as does Sitchin as well as other more credible historians whose research I am unable to quote for you at this time.Kramer,perhaps?

I believe Ng's father Enki was originally assigned the Caduceus until it was appropriated by Ningishzida at a later time.

Dan Winter has written some interesting articles about all this incorparating fractals and sacred geometry.Of course there are some parts that you have to suspend judgement on.Its at www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_danwinter08.htm

Good luck with your research,I would like to read the book you have written as well as this forthcoming one.

Monkeyblood

[deviadah]

With the confusion over the meaning of 'nin' in a name I dont think its written in blood that its automatically female. Ninurta being an example.

Yes, it is hard to be certain when it concerns the antediluvian world... that is certain!



And as you say one has to be careful not to believe everything one reads concerning Ng since there are some pretty crazy conspiracies out there that I - personally - feel are a bit too much even for me!

[monkeyblood]

Yes,as much as I like my conspiracies......some of the things that are written!......too much,just too much.The trick is to try to sift it all for the nuggets of gold they bring out that orthodox research would not go near......I've caught Sitchin out on a few things to do with astrology so then I think "How suspect is his other information in fields I know little about?"
Dan Winter has been a cosmonaut in his time,as well....still I think they are worth reading....not alot about Ningishzida in academic research and there is something about him.....

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