Philosophical Magnets for Capturing the Secret Fire

[BeautifulEvil]

This has been an interest of mine for the past few days. I'll lay out my questions in a list.

1. What are some good philosophical magnets for the secret fire? What about the most powerful magnet for the secret fire? Is it antimony trichloride (antimony butter)?
2. Must these magnets go through the process of deliquescence/absorption in order to draw/capture the secret fire?

It seems to me that in order to capture the secret fire our philosophical magnet must absorb ambient moisture from the surrounding area. However, once our magnet has been converted to the liquid phase it no longer has the abilities to draw the secret fire to itself. I would like to find a substance that will concentrate the secret fire without actually having to change phases from solid to liquid. Ideally, it should stay as a solid throughout the process, and in this way it will continue to concentrate within itself the secret fire. You may also consider it a type of "secret fire capacitor."

This "fixed" magnet would start to glow after its acquired enough of the secret fire. It would have to be enclosed in a metal enclosure in order to prevent further absorption of the secret fire (which would lead to catastrophe consequences, explosion perhaps?). It's akin to multiplying the stone (after you reach a certain stage, it begins to glow, and if you exceed too many multiplications it can become unstable).

It would be beyond precious if such a thing exists.

[kerkring]

This has been an interest of mine for the past few days. I'll lay out my questions in a list.

1. What are some good philosophical magnets for the secret fire? What about the most powerful magnet for the secret fire? Is it antimony trichloride (antimony butter)?
2. Must these magnets go through the process of deliquescence/absorption in order to draw/capture the secret fire?

It seems to me that in order to capture the secret fire our philosophical magnet must absorb ambient moisture from the surrounding area. However, once our magnet has been converted to the liquid phase it no longer has the abilities to draw the secret fire to itself. I would like to find a substance that will concentrate the secret fire without actually having to change phases from solid to liquid. Ideally, it should stay as a solid throughout the process, and in this way it will continue to concentrate within itself the secret fire. You may also consider it a type of "secret fire capacitor."

This "fixed" magnet would start to glow after its acquired enough of the secret fire. It would have to be enclosed in a metal enclosure in order to prevent further absorption of the secret fire (which would lead to catastrophe consequences, explosion perhaps?). It's akin to multiplying the stone (after you reach a certain stage, it begins to glow, and if you exceed too many multiplications it can become unstable).

It would be beyond precious if such a thing exists.

In the french book I'm translating bits from, they say that it's a salt contained in the dew. To collect it they use an industrial air dehumidifier which creates an articificial dew point and allows them to collect several liters a night. So they don't use a magnet.
Some of them also use molecular sieves to capture the dew, maybe something like zeolites, but don't specify what kind exactly.
They also mention the use of salts that are set out at night to deliquesce but say that this is not good because the salt contained in the dew (Secret Fire) will most likely be absorbed onto the magnet when the liquid is distilled off later.

[BeautifulEvil]

Thanks kerkring, but that's not quite what I had in mind. When I speak of "secret fire" I'm using it in a somewhat more ambiguous way. I should say that I'm referring to a purely philosophical secret fire. This secret fire lacks all form, and is not yet associated with a salt, liquid, or any other matter. It is a spiritual secret fire. It animates & permeates all things.

Please excuse me, I realize my original post wasn't all too clear in regards to this issue.

This is a little bit different than what we've come to learn about deliquescence, magnets, and the secret fire (a salt/dew). This is just a curiosity of mine. I really haven't heard such a thing described in the literature before. It's just a part of one of my thought experiments, and I'm not even sure if such a thing would even be possible. Dreaming is the first step though! I create as I go.

[kerkring]

Thanks kerkring, but that's not quite what I had in mind. When I speak of "secret fire" I'm using it in a somewhat more ambiguous way. I should say that I'm referring to a purely philosophical secret fire. This secret fire lacks all form, and is not yet associated with a salt, liquid, or any other matter. It is a spiritual secret fire. It animates & permeates all things.

You should check out the book by Jean Dubuis 'The Fundamentals of Esoteric Knowledge' therein he describes this energetic makeup. It is also mentioned in 'The Experience of Eternity' I think.
At level 3, Binah, you have the prima materia as energy which is probably what you mean. This is then split up as it densifies in its descends down the tree into our world (level 10) and eventually becomes the four elements which are present in everything. For alchemy and initiation the element Fire is most important. Fire is heavily concentrated in human blood.

[solomon levi]

There are some works which speak of using magnifying lenses and mirrors
to concentrate sunlight into a miraculous salt. I think that's you're best bet. I'll try to find the
particular work that mentioned this. Maybe "Hyle and Coahtl"? I'll check. It's in the RAMS materials.
This may take me a while.

I know this isn't what you want, but another way to collect a lot of condesnation is
to put salt and ice, or maybe saltpeter and ice into a vessel and hang the vessel
in the sun and it will become super-cold and the humidity will collect on the outside
of the vessel and fall into a receiver. French's "Art of Distillation" mentions this.

I think PON said the Butter of Antimony was the strongest magnet.
They said it would even pull moisture in the desert, or something like that.

[BeautifulEvil]

Ah thanks for the help guys, but I think I'm on my own with this one. I've never heard of anything quite like what I want to do.

[theFool]

1. What are some good philosophical magnets for the secret fire? What about the most powerful magnet for the secret fire? Is it antimony trichloride (antimony butter)?

Calcium nitrate is a very "powerful" salt, it collects moisture during the day and will not stop until all of its mass becomes liquid, even if the solid part is covered by the delequiem.

I would like to find a substance that will concentrate the secret fire without actually having to change phases from solid to liquid.

I think common salt (NaCl) behaves this way but if I get you right, this is not exactly what you want. NaCl absorbs also moisture. You need sth that absorbs only the "secret fire".

This "fixed" magnet would start to glow after its acquired enough of the secret fire.

Sounds like nice idea. What comes to my mind is to let a salt to absorb moisture, then evaporate the water and repeat the cycle. Supposedly, the "secret fire" will remain with the salt and accumulate. After all, this is a way to do revivification of the salt. Maybe leave some calcium nitrate on the heat radiator and check back after some months.
But if we had a way to detect the presence or not of the "secret fire" we could be sure if it accumulates by repeated delequiems.

[BeautifulEvil]

This is a good thread regardless of my odd ramblings. I suppose any discourse on these magnets is fair game even if it doesn't meet the requirements laid out in my first post.

The pure invisible secret fire, not yet associated with matter, could be viewed as the ultimate unfixed "substance." It makes sense that in order to capture it properly our magnet must go through the solid to liquid phase change. Once this has taken place we have to evaporate the associated liquid, but does the secret fire also evaporate with the moisture? I don't know.

My mythical philosophical magnet would ideally be a crystalline stone. It would act as an energy vortex, and capture the surrounding ambient secret fire. It should also be impervious to deliquescence. Some energy transfer is likely to occur if it touches something, but it should not fully discharge its energy until a phase change occurs (from solid to liquid by means of fire or corrosives). It should be able to draw the secret fire from an animated subject (metal, or mineral, but not living life). In the case of life it should not be able to draw the secret fire from a subject, but rather it should supplement and supercharge the life form (providing extended life, health, etc). Simply being in the presence of this stone would be enough to provide said benefits. Sunlight would also be another excellent way to charge it, but simply leaving it out in the open would work according to my theory.

Does a thing like this actually exist in nature? I can't think of anything. It would definitely be supernatural.

I suppose I should get my head out of the clouds, and start thinking a bit more rationally.

------

A few more thoughts and I've come up with something. The art of glassmaking might suit us for this purpose. We have sand and a fixed alkali (sometimes along with a metallic oxide). We should use an animated fixed alkali for this process (actually, I think the intense heat may destroy the secret fire). I'm wondering if antimony oxide can be used (antimony is the only metal that retains its animated spirit while in flux). Will this antimony oxide lose its animation upon heating? I don't know if antimony salts maintain their animation upon heating like metallic antimony. Will the antimony glass act as a philosophical magnet for the secret fire? I don't believe it will, but this is pure conjecture. Perhaps we can amalgamate antimony shards with the molten glass and then pour it into a mold.

Will this do what I want? I have absolutely no clue, but I will pursue this notion of glass making MUCH further. One more thing, we could use the martial regulus of antimony for this process. Even if it doesn't have the "supernatural" properties I want, it should result in some pretty glass!

I'd also like to toy with the idea of making gold glass.

Glass is a combination of sand, flint, spar, or some other silicious substances, with one or other of the fixed alkalies, and in some cases with a metallic oxide. Of the alkalies, soda is commonly preferred; and of the silicious substances, white sand is most in repute at present, as it requires no preparation for coarse goods, while mere washing in water is sufficient for those of a finer quality. The metallic oxide usually employed, is litharge, or some other preparation of lead. Iron is used in bottle-glass.

The silicious matter should be fused in contact with something called a flux. The substances proper for this purpose are lead, borax, arsenic, nitre, or any alkaline matter. The lead is used in the state of red-lead; and the alkalies are soda, pearlash, sea-salt, and wood-ashes. When red-lead is used alone, it gives the glass a yellow cast and requires the addition of nitre to correct it. Arsenic, in the same manner, if used in excess, is apt to render the glass milky. For a perfectly transparent glass, the pearlash is found much superior to lead; perhaps better than any other flux, except it be borax, which is too expensive to be used, except for experiments, or for the best looking-glasses.

The materials for making glass must first be reduced to powder, which is done in mortars or by horse mills. After sifting out the coarse parts, the proper proportions of silex and flux are mixed together, and put into the calcining furnace, where they are kept in a moderate heat for 5 or 6 hours, being frequently stirred about during the process. When taken out the matter is called frit. Frit is easily converted into glass by only pounding it, and vitrifying it in the melting pots of the glass furnace; but in making fine glass, it will sometimes require a small addition of flux to the frit to correct any fault. For, as the flux is the most expensive article, the manufacturer will rather put too little at first than otherwise, as he can remedy this defect in the melting pot. The heat in the furnace must be kept up until the glass is brought to a state of perfect fusion; and during this process any scum which arises must be removed by ladles. When the glass is perfectly melted, the glass-blowers commence their operations.

[horticult]

I think that this magnet is that we all are seeking, that white core of black Fulcanelli´s subject. Glass is likely a good idea, many authors are praising glassmaking. And prospectors have interesting respect for silica/flint. You can read everywhere that philosophical stone is only this fire fixed.

[horticult]

What comes to my mind is to let a salt to absorb moisture, then evaporate the water and repeat the cycle. Supposedly, the "secret fire" will remain with the salt and accumulate. After all, this is a way to do revivification of the salt.

Yes, I am thinking about this also for some time, just to do it. Wonder if use normal sea or dead salt.

[BeautifulEvil]

I think that this magnet is that we all are seeking, that white core of black Fulcanelli´s subject. Glass is likely a good idea, many authors are praising glassmaking. And prospectors have interesting respect for silica/flint. You can read everywhere that philosophical stone is only this fire fixed.

All the magnets I know of must go through a state of deliquescence in order to capture the secret fire. After it changes phases from solid to liquid it no longer has the ability to attract the secret fire to itself. I want a magnet that will continuously attract the secret fire to itself without changing phases. In this way it does not become limited. I can't recall where I read this from, but I believe an oracle at Delphi was asked a question about who/what entails a philosopher. She answered "a philosopher is one that knows how to make glass." I really wish I could find a source for this, but I know I've read it somewhere! I really think glass making is a good path to research.

This philosophical magnet of mine wouldn't quite match up to all the accounts of the philosopher's stone, but it works on the same exact principles (it fixes/captures/absorbs the secret fire). It would be a very good imitation of the stone.

Yes, I am thinking about this also for some time, just to do it. Wonder if use normal sea or dead salt.

I've been using Dead Sea salt (mostly magnesium chloride). It's not the best for the job. The effect of capturing the secret fire should coincide with the salts ability to rapidly absorb moisture from the air (the quicker the deliquescence, the more secret fire it captures).

[solomon levi]

You may consider pyramids as secret fire accumulators.
Pyr-a-mid means "fire in the middle" - the place of the King's chamber,
1/3rd down.

Someone on the net claims to have produced the oil of gold,
the white powder and the red from simply placing a gold coin
in the sweet spot of a pyramid and keeping it hid from all light.
Another person corroborated his work as far as the oil went.

[BeautifulEvil]

You may consider pyramids as secret fire accumulators.
Pyr-a-mid means "fire in the middle" - the place of the King's chamber,
1/3rd down.

I've heard of this before, but I couldn't figure out how they came up with it. After looking at the word "pyr-a-mid" I see what you mean. pyr = fyr = fyre = fire

Pretty cool!

Someone on the net claims to have produced the oil of gold,
the white powder and the red from simply placing a gold coin
in the sweet spot of a pyramid and keeping it hid from all light.
Another person corroborated his work as far as the oil went.

Also remember hearing about this. It seems pretty miraculous if it does indeed work. I have no idea what could be the mechanism behind it!

I think I will investigate this theory further. Thanks for reminding me!

[Joshewon Brinobi]

This makes me think about Orgonite. Orgone accumulators and such.

Maybe this can be used to Store astral energy.

Orgone is said to be the energy that permeates all things. Astral Energy, Chi as others call it. It's the energy healing reiki masters use to heal.

There was a Austrian-American psychiatrist and psychoanalyst by the name of Wilhelm Reich . He made a device that could store and distribute this astral energy. Then made other devices that would turn what he called DO into PO. Deadly Orgone into Positive Healing orgone.

He stumbled upon this when he was microscopically viewing plant material in its decay. He noticed little blue bubbles that looked like energy or plasma coming up and off of the specimen when it was in decay. Like the life force in it was leaving.

Found this site. Has a good writeup. http://www.thesynchronicitygrid.com/whatisorgone.html

" WHAT IS ORGONE?

In the 1930's and 1940's, Dr. Wilhelm Reich was able to detect and measure the existence of etheric (life energy, chi, etc.),
which he called orgone, using a modified geiger counter.

Dr. Reich determined that stacking alternating layers of fiberglass (an organic substance) and steel wool (an inorganic
substance) would actually attract and collect orgone/etheric energy of both the life-beneficial positive form (which Reich
called "OR" or "POR" ) and harmful negative etheric energy ("Deadly Orgone"or "DOR").
He constructed large boxes called orgone accumulators or "Oracs" using this simple layering principle and was able to
successfully heal his patients of various ailments, including various forms of cancer, by having them sit inside the box for
periods of time.

Reich's work was continued in earnest in the 1960's by more open-minded Russian scientists , who also scientifically proved
that such unseen energies indeed exist all around us, and who's Reich-inspired work led to the unfortunate development of
practical Soviet military defense applications which utilized principles of so-called "Torsion Fields" (e.g., etheric energy).
Kozyrev's work, which indeed confirms both Reich's research and our empirical experiences with orgonite, was classified until
the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Following in their footsteps, thousands of Ph.D.-level researchers from both sides of the Iron Curtain spanning multiple
generations have continued Kozyrev and Reich's pioneering work, slowly forcing mainstream Western science to finally,
"officially recognize" the concept of a universal, unseen energy medium they call "dark matter," "vacuum flux" or "zero-point
energy," depending on who you ask.

It is commonly understood among orgonite enthusiasts that these are all essentially describing the same thing, which Reich
called "orgone".
HOW DOES IT WORK?

In 2000, researchers discovered that mixing catalyzed organic fiberglass resin with inorganic metal shavings would produce a
substance which would attract etheric energy similarly to Reich's accumulators.

A further step was taken by adding a small quartz crystal to the mixture , for their ability to efficiently collect, transmute and emit
etheric energy. This addition to the resin/metal matrix creates a substance which functions as a self-driven,
continuously-operating, highly efficient DOR/POR (negative to positive) energy transmutation factory.

When orgonite is within range of a source of DOR/negative energy, it will efficiently and continuously transform it into
POR/positive energy as it is being transmitted, which essentially creates positive energy transmitters out of any and all emitters
of harmful negative energy, which are totally defenseless against the effect.

The resin in orgonite shrinks during the curing process, permanently squeezing the quartz crystal inside which creates a
well-known piezoelectric effect inside the crystal, meaning its end-points become polarized electrically. It is believed this is
also what causes the orgonite to function so effectively as a positive energy generator.

Thus orgonite represents a very significant improvement over Reich's early work with orgone accumulators, since Reich's
"oracs" attract deadly orgone energy as well as positive and do nothing to transmute it into a purely beneficial form, which
orgonite does inherently and continuously. "

[BeautifulEvil]

Thank you for mentioning that Joshewon Brinobi. You bring some interesting information to the table.

Orgone energy, astral energy, the secret fire - are all pretty much the same thing in my opinion. I've researched the topic of Orgone energy accumulators very briefly, but it was years ago (way before I became a student of alchemy). I must say his methods of using fiberglass resin and metal shavings to make the accumulators is very interesting (especially in regards to alchemy). Do you think glass would work instead of fiberglass? Must it be organic? Would any other metals work, or just iron (I'd like to give antimony or gold a try)? Also adding quartz to the mixture makes for another interesting idea!

Another name for the philosophical magnet I'm proposing would be a "secret fire accumulator."

I must really thank you for bringing this to the table. I can see something very interesting coming to light.

[theFool]

Experiment:

1. Food grade carbonate (pure white) was left for months on open air. It went through cycles of collecting dew at night and evaporating the water at the day.
2. After ~4 months it was calcined in a stainless steel vessel. It got a green tint and after calcination, it became orange-brown.
3. 0.5 gr of it were dissolved in 60ml of deionised water.
4. After ~6hours, a precip formed. Its behaviour and appearence are similar to the purified precip obtained by sea salt (m-state) but the colour was brown.
5. The precip was washed 3 times and left to evaporate to dryiness on a heat plate.

Upon testing with magnet, no magnetic behaviour was observed.
Some HCl drops were put on it and it fizzed, just like one would expect from carbonate to do.

A possible explanation for the colourings is that the K2CO3 etched the stainless steel vessel I used for calcination liberating Fe ions (FeCO3 green?). Then, after calcnation iron oxide was left behind (rust, brown).
However I would like to do some more tests because I have a lot of the material left aside. If this "secret fire" theory is correct, the carbonate should be full of it. Any ideas welcome...

[BeautifulEvil]

Pretty interesting experiment. I believe the PON courses mentioned something like this. They left potassium carbonate out to deliquesce multiples times and after 10 cycles it started to obtain a blue tint. They mentioned it could've been a faulty experiment (the color might've been from chemicals leeched from the container).

Before calcination did you add water to fully dissolve the carbonate and see if anything settled out of solution? This would check for any pollen or dust.

I suppose the potash could've reacted with the iron vessel during calcination. Iron carbonate isn't very soluble at all (rust being completely insoluble). You mentioned something settled out of the carbonate solution. This could be iron carbonate and/or rust.

A possible explanation for the colourings is that the K2CO3 etched the stainless steel vessel I used for calcination liberating Fe ions (FeCO3 green?). Then, after calcnation iron oxide was left behind (rust, brown).

That's a pretty good explanation. It's also what I came up with.

However I would like to do some more tests because I have a lot of the material left aside. If this "secret fire" theory is correct, the carbonate should be full of it. Any ideas welcome...

Unfortunately that's the kicker. I don't know of any REAL method to check for the secret fire. Heat is also an enemy of the secret fire, and if your calcination temperature was too high you might've lost it.

[solomon levi]

Contemplations:
Is heat an enemy of secret fire, or of the bodies which carry it?
Is secret fire related to sulphur and that which is incombustible?
Only incombustible when fixed?

Questions about magnifying lenses:
If they concentrate sunlight, is the fire concentrated?
Is calcining with lenses/light better than calcining with fire?
Does the fire from the lense enter the calcined body or merely
act on it?

Some physicists have claimed that matter is condensed light
or gravitationally trapped light. And we know light is the first thing god
created and therefore relevant to the first matter of alchemists.

[BeautifulEvil]

Contemplations:
Is heat an enemy of secret fire, or of the bodies which carry it?
Is secret fire related to sulphur and that which is incombustible?
Only incombustible when fixed?

Ideally, the secret fire cannot be destroyed by heat (it is incombustible), but the body can. So it's quite possible the body looses its ability to hold the secret fire when heated past a certain point. Of course, the secret fire is by its very nature quite volatile. It only becomes "fixed" in the body by means of the magnetic ability of the salt.

Good questions, I must confess that I've never really considered it too much.

----------

Questions about magnifying lenses:
If they concentrate sunlight, is the fire concentrated?
Is calcining with lenses/light better than calcining with fire?
Does the fire from the lense enter the calcined body or merely
act on it?

These questions are a little too advanced for me to answer. My answers may not be very good.

Calcining with sunlight is very alchemical. I've read that it adds weight to substances without any known mechanism. I've heard that the sun is the source of the secret fire, and thus the secret fire should occur alongside sunlight. I would assume the light from the lense enters the body, and the heat produced from the light acts on the body.

----------

Some physicists have claimed that matter is condensed light
or gravitationally trapped light. And we know light is the first thing god
created and therefore relevant to the first matter of alchemists.

I am on par with this. Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. Light was the first thing God created, but darkness or void pre-existed. So I would say the true "first matter" was darkness or maybe "dark/negative energy." The first matter of the alchemists was black. I could be barking up the wrong tree with these meanderings though.

[Dizardos]

Some physicists have claimed that matter is condensed light
or gravitationally trapped light. And we know light is the first thing god
created and therefore relevant to the first matter of alchemists.

I am on par with this. Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. Light was the first thing God created, but darkness or void pre-existed. So I would say the true "first matter" was darkness or maybe "dark/negative energy." The first matter of the alchemists was black. I could be barking up the wrong tree with these meanderings though.

Good discussion. Finding the truth is nothing but asking questions. I however wish you to reconsider light as the first thing that was created. Where does light stem from? Light always has a source. It does not appear out of nothing. Light can be traced back to its origin without difficulty. Follow its path to its origin and what do you find? Light is but an effect of the freedom of the true power that is behind everything.

[pierre]

Hi, everyone.

Some physicists have claimed that matter is condensed light or gravitationally trapped light.

Is physically verified that light can exert pressure or force on a mirror, for exemple; almost imperceptible, but concrete. And it can be measured ...Anyway it is not direct sunlight, which we need, but the sunlight polarized. Sunlight is very strong for a tender matter as a magnet can resist. (Ah..., sorry my bad English, please!)

Is heat an enemy of secret fire, or of the bodies which carry it?
Is secret fire related to sulphur and that which is incombustible?
Only incombustible when fixed?

I agree that the secret fire is a noncombustible fire. Only the body that contains it is corruptible, and when it gets corrupted, the spirit escapes. If we do not have a body fit to catch the spirit ¿how we retain it?
Heat is not the only enemy of S.F. but the strong wind, the sky overcast...

And the sulfur is the spiritus mundi materialized in minerals. It is a kind of S.F. specified in the metalic kingdom.
The sulfur is indestructible, even harder to fire. It is a principle of immortality in the minerals. The sulphur is not combustible. You can not burn it. Exists even in the ashes of burnt metal ... ¿Remember this words of Fulcanelli?

At least that is how I interpret this whole issue ..

[BeautifulEvil]

Good discussion. Finding the truth is nothing but asking questions. I however wish you to reconsider light as the first thing that was created. Where does light stem from? Light always has a source. It does not appear out of nothing. Light can be traced back to its origin without difficulty. Follow its path to its origin and what do you find? Light is but an effect of the freedom of the true power that is behind everything.

Light or energy is the first real "manifestation" of the Godhead. I do not deny the divinity of the light. That would indeed be folly.

However, I must state that I subscribe to the dogma of the Hermetic Qabalah.

Site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah

These emanations arise out of three preliminary states that are considered to precede creation. The first is a state of complete nullity, known as Ain (אין "nothing"); the second state, considered a "concentration" of Ain, is Ain Suph (אין סוף "without limit, infinite"); the third state, caused by a "movement" of Ain Suph, is Ain Suph Aur (אין סוף אור "limitless light"), and it is from this initial brilliance that the first emanation of creation originates[4].

The dark/negative energy I mentioned might've been a little misleading. I would rather define it as nothing.

Please keep in mind that this forum is here for us to share knowledge. Our path is our own, and we are all at different points of the journey. I do thank you for your intentions though. They are indeed noble.

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